AN orphan followed me home (Triumph content)

HELP!

You remember how I said that the next thing I brought home was going to be bone-simple and ubiquitous?

Well, of course I can't follow my own effing advice.

I bought a 1966 Triumph 2000 sedan. Officially, less than 1000 were brought to the States. The chassis has a lot of overlap with the Stag, the engine is almost identical to the Vitesse and GT6, and (best part) the car itself is stupidly original, down to a working Lucas generator and non-working Lucas sealed-beams.

The car drives, and the 2 liter six runs, but there's an aftermarket electric fuel pump giving me issues and it won't go very far or fast due to the Stromberg carbs getting too much fuel pressure. It bogs down horribly whenever you give it gas and won't idle cleanly for more than 15-20 seconds before it starts going way rich and eventually sputtering to a halt. It also stinks like gas and the fuel filter won't stay full.

Points, etc. are all up to date, and there's new plug wires and plugs. Starts instantly when it's cold, so I don't think there's an ignition issue.

I've bought rebuild kits for the Strombergs and the mechanical fuel pump, which has been bypassed. Shouldn't be any more difficult that the surface-mount electronic components I deal with at work, but any tips or tricks would be appreciated.

Pictures later . . . I've had it for two weeks but during that same two weeks I had oral surgery (5 teeth out, all impacted) so right now it's just been sitting at my apartment since the day I got it. It needs paint, rust repair (structurally very sound, but needs small patches in the driver's floorboard and spare tire well, as well as a lot of surface cleanup) and some TLC, but is a very restorable example with a straight body, decent chrome, and almost all of the impossible "concours" bits like the original AM radio and owner's manual.

(In addition to piddling around and repairing bits and pieces as I can, I'm considering just flipping it, or (preferably) trading it to a Brit enthusiast for a more traditional LBC, like a Spridget or Spitfire. Thoughts?)

wouldn't have thought your fuel filter would empty with too much pressure, but the rebuilt mechanical pump is a better match without having to add in a pressure regulator that can get you down to 1.5 - 2 psi and maintain enough flow.

Fantastic buy!

These are wonderful cars. I knew a guy who had one of these for years. His had an automatic gearbox but drove nicely and sounded great. Last I heard he was using a Rover SD1 as a daily driver. Not sure of the profit potential as these sedans don't have big values despite their rarity. Check out the British Saloon Car Club of Canada (they have quite a few US members).

On the fuel filter: Me either, but this is literally my first carbureted car, so getting my head around the fuel system has taken a bit. I just thought it seemed significant, since air trapped anywhere in an EFI system will mess your day up. The air is coming back from the carbs, if that helps put a handle on it.

And, as near as I can figure, the electric pump on the car is either internally regulated or it's just dumping the fuel in the carbs at whatever pressure it's designed to maintain. I was worried the pressure was overwhelming the float mechanism and just making the carb dump fuel, letting air travel back up the line.

On the picture; the guy I bought the Triumph from was an eclectic Mississippi racer who had such niceties in his shop as a Hilborn-injected Hemi up on a stand, two Bonneville cars, a handbuilt, tube frame Shelby Cobra clone, and a Formula Ford. He was going to paint the Triumph in Gulf livery and go vintage rallying, but was suffering from "too many projects, too little time" and decided to pass it on. I'd like to do it up like the one you pictured, though, roo bar and everything.

That is awesome! PICS PICS PICS!!!!!

Does the pump make a 'ticking' noise when it's running? Does it say Lucas on it? Usually that would make it an almost-period correct mod (if it didn't come with it stock in the first place) and they're low pressure pumps designed to shut off when the carb float says enough.

Some of the strombergs have a mix adjustment screw (allen key). Probably easiest without the special tool, is take the 4 screws out of the top, remove the diaphram (carefully). If the adjustment hex is there - counterclockwise can lean it out (raises the needle). If you back it out too far it will disengage from the adjustment screw - just hold a little pressure on the needle and turn the key till it re-engages. All that being said - it may not be enough to compensate for the extra pressure - just an fyi that you can give it a shot at leaning it out some and since you have the rebuild kits for the carbs anyway....

Nice! Paul Newman did much of his early racing in one of those (OK, actually a "2500", but very similar)

You can see it near the bottom of ~This Link~

LordTurbonia wrote: I'm considering just flipping it, or (preferably) trading it to a Brit enthusiast for a more traditional LBC, like a Spridget or Spitfire. Thoughts?)

Neat cars. A highschool friend of mine had a 2500 manual (4 spd + O/D) for a while. It was fun enough to drive, definitely sporting, but no sports car. I'd rather a LBC, myself.

Also, interesting to know about the Paul Newman connection.

From aeronca's link -

I do love the sight of a straight-six with triple side-drafts .

Why not throw a new mechanical fuel pump in there? They're cheap and easy to do. These carbs run at very low pressures. Rebuild the carbs, fresh fuel filter and I suspect you're 90% of the way there. I had a GT6 for years (same motor) and they're about as sophisticated as a hammer, but run pretty well. I had very good luck with Spitbits for parts.

Turboeric wrote: Rebuild the carbs, fresh fuel filter and I suspect you're 90% of the way there.

That was my thinking. I was planning on spending the long weekend with the Strombergs, the mechanical fuel pump, the rebuilt kits, some carb cleaner, an exploded diagram, and a 5 gallon bucket full of ice and cold beers. I'm going to try rebuilding the fuel pump before I spring for a new one, though.

Aside: Anybody know which parts chain has the best deals on fuel line? I've seen prices all over the place and I wanted to go ahead and replace everything from the hardline to the carbs, since the electric pump fuel routing means I'll have to tear it out to reconnect the mechanical pump anyway.

Another aside: uploading pics tonite. Hopefully.

BoxheadTim wrote: Does the pump make a 'ticking' noise when it's running?

Yeah, but it's not a Lucas-branded one; looks like a generic Napa/Autozone/Pep Boys pump. I'm going back to the mechanical pump this weekend.

Yah, fuel pressure is something like 1.5-2.5 psi. You could fit a regulator, or find an electric pump with correct pressure. BTW, Rimmer Brothers does stock some replacement and patch panels. Wait for free shipping, and order what you need all at once.

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Category--Triumph-Car-Parts--m-602

Carter

LordTurbonia wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote: Does the pump make a 'ticking' noise when it's running?

Yeah, but it's not a Lucas-branded one; looks like a generic Napa/Autozone/Pep Boys pump. I'm going back to the mechanical pump this weekend.

Personally, I think that's a good choice. I was going to suggest this when you brought up the fuel pressure problem-but then noticed you mentioned you'd bought the rebuild kit in your OP. Reduces complexity to go back, rather than finding a regulator & setting it up. And oldtin's dead on the money about raising/lowering the needle to correct the mixture. That's one of the cool thing about old British sidedraughts..you just move (or change, they're available in different diameters) the needle to "re-jet" the carb. None of the Lego set stuff you have to do on a Weber.

Beware! Just poking an allen key in and twisting the adjustment screw is likely to rotate the piston and rupture the rubber diaphragm that seals the piston to the carb body, resulting in an internal air leak that prevents you from achieving mixture Nirvana. What you need is the proper ZS adjustment tool, which features an outer sleeve and an inner allen key. The sleeve fits into the piston holding it steady to prevent rotation, while the allen key is used on the adjustment screw. In fact, it's possible that such damage has already taken place, visual inspection of the diaphragm is one of the first steps to take. And if the high fuel pressure is leaking past the float bowl valve, no amount of screw fiddling will fix it.

As mentioned, if they just swapped in an aftetmarket fuel pump without installing a regulator to bring the pressure down, it won't run well.

Sounds like a great buy!

Here's a link with pix of the ZS tool(s):

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Carbs/CarbsIII/CarbsIII.htm

Pictures . . .

I might need to call Rimmer Bros. and order a letter M . . .

And a 0 . . .

Here's the inline 6:

And the dual Strombergs:

Rust in the floor:

And the spare tire well:

Interior has it's ups and downs. Not visible are the headliner (bad) and the rear tray (very bad).

Looks ok down the side:

And the roof needs going over:

Sills have no rust whatsoever, strut towers are clean, and the wheel wells have a light coat of surface rust right at the rear where road debris, rocks, etc. would have worn away the paint. What do you think?

i think it needs 11" wide rims and 275/40-17 rubber all around. other than that, i would just get it running and drive it just the way it is.

Sweet! Being a 2000, most of the US parts brokers won't help..but Victoria British has a GT6/Spitfire catalog where you can find a lot of engine stuff for the 2ltr.

http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sg/t.aspx

Nice!

I was thinking it would be a Mk2 for some reason. Mk1 + manual transmission = pretty desirable spec.

I've had good dealings with www.TheRoadsterFactory.com out of PA. Nice peoples, and weekly specials, also try BPNorthwest. Their prices can be surprisingly low. And, with RockAuto, you can "register" the car, and when they have clearance stuff for one, you'll get an email. I get'em on the Spitfire and the Protege.

erohslc wrote: Beware! Just poking an allen key in and twisting the adjustment screw is likely to rotate the piston and rupture the rubber diaphragm that seals the piston to the carb body, resulting in an internal air leak that prevents you from achieving mixture Nirvana. What you *need* is the proper ZS adjustment tool, which features an outer sleeve and an inner allen key. The sleeve fits into the piston holding it steady to prevent rotation, while the allen key is used on the adjustment screw. In fact, it's possible that such damage has already taken place, visual inspection of the diaphragm is one of the first steps to take. And if the high fuel pressure is leaking past the float bowl valve, no amount of screw fiddling will fix it.

+TRUTH !!

triumph5 wrote:

erohslc wrote: Beware! Just poking an allen key in and twisting the adjustment screw is likely to rotate the piston and rupture the rubber diaphragm that seals the piston to the carb body, resulting in an internal air leak that prevents you from achieving mixture Nirvana. What you *need* is the proper ZS adjustment tool, which features an outer sleeve and an inner allen key. The sleeve fits into the piston holding it steady to prevent rotation, while the allen key is used on the adjustment screw. In fact, it's possible that such damage has already taken place, visual inspection of the diaphragm is one of the first steps to take. And if the high fuel pressure is leaking past the float bowl valve, no amount of screw fiddling will fix it.

+TRUTH !!

You're both right..the tools were so common back then that I completely forgot about it. I wonder where mine's wondered off to..I coulda donated to the cause!

LordTurbonia wrote:

And on the subject of carbs..IIRC those two gaskets are the float bowl to TB (upper left) and the TB to manifold (lower right).

Moss Motors on the Zenith-Stromberg:

http://www.mossmotors.com/forum/forums/thread/11367.aspx