Another "what car" thread....FWD Dirt Oval

Honda-Prelude, Interga are dohc-and dohc is no go-can a D15 be fast? I didnt think it could, but worth a google

Yes. Yes they can. And there are other single stick honda options. Too many people get hung up on hp/torque numbers and don't look at the whole picture. There's a reason why cavaliers and sunfires aren't podium finishers in any autocross or road racing class. Maybe they do really well on dirt. I don't know.

A first gen crx or 3g civic will be less than 1500 lbs. wet with cage when gutted, and there's a lot to be said for unloading the cart. My $.02. I would think that or turbo dodge could be the answer.

I'm in foreign territory here, so don't take my word for anything. We are taking about building a 4-cyl for dirt, but all we have here is carb'd rwd :( Otherwise, 1g CRX would be me first choice. I like 'em light. I can always add more power and tire. I can only remove so much weight.

You didn't say anything about no turbo... did you?

Only one cam in my 2.2 Turbo Mazda...

An 8V isn't going to beat a 16V, the possible exceptions being a 2.2/2.5 Chrysler, or a VW. The Honda 16V sohc motors do very well around here, and there's a reason everybody at your track is running a Neon. If it were me I'd run a Honda, unless there was a proper weight rule, then I'd run a 98-01 Swift.

01-04 neon R/T or acr head 01 R/T or acr camshaft 95-99 neon DOHC short block 420a Eclipse oil pan and pick up depending on how savy the track workers are use 01-04 R/T or acr intake and exhaust manifolds (excellent short tube header and long runner dual stage intake)

Gets you a stock looking and driving neon engine with 10:1 compression should be 140ish horsepower at the wheels and rev to 8000rpm

Stop worrying about horsepower. On a short track oval its all about getting around the corners fast. Horsepower doesn't help all that much when the guy beside you exited the turn 5 mph faster even if you do have another 50 hp. I see that all the time. Its handling and light cars turn better and maintain a head of steam better and most important if you buy the right car you don't spend every night in the shop fixing it. I have been doing this for a while and I have learned the hard lessons for you. A Civic with a SOHC Vtech will clean up and you can park it behind the barn between races and not look at it again until the next race day.

poopshovel wrote:

Honda-Prelude, Interga are dohc-and dohc is no go-can a D15 be fast? I didnt think it could, but worth a google

Yes. Yes they can. And there are other single stick honda options. Too many people get hung up on hp/torque numbers and don't look at the whole picture. There's a reason why cavaliers and sunfires aren't podium finishers in any autocross or road racing class. Maybe they do really well on dirt. I don't know. A first gen crx or 3g civic will be less than 1500 lbs. wet with cage when gutted, and there's a lot to be said for unloading the cart. My $.02. I would think that or turbo dodge could be the answer. I'm in foreign territory here, so don't take my word for anything. We are taking about building a 4-cyl for dirt, but all we have here is carb'd rwd :( Otherwise, 1g CRX would be me first choice. I like 'em light. I can always add more power and tire. I can only remove so much weight.

There is a D16 SOHC Vtec. This = Win. One could even find a Civic with a D15 for very cheap and drop the D16 Vtec head on top.

What car comes with said D16 vtec? It seems that the Hondas here are going to be more expensive to buy, but reliabaility is a key (not a lot of time to wrench on it, going to take enought to get it built before next season) keep in mind I did kill a Corolla-thought that was indestructible....

My other concern with the H cars is the strutcure itself-one of the guys we ran with had an early corolla (82?) that the unit body was literally falling apart-think 1 in gaps between front rail and inner fender/strut mount....now I know any car abused enough will not last forever with the beating they take on the track, but would like it to last for a couple seasons-if I can keep it off the walls

I am leaning Saturn/Cavalier just due to parts and car availability....sooo many here

vdubinsd wrote: What car comes with said D16 vtec? It seems that the Hondas here are going to be more expensive to buy, but reliabaility is a key (not a lot of time to wrench on it, going to take enought to get it built before next season) keep in mind I did kill a Corolla-thought that was indestructible.... My other concern with the H cars is the strutcure itself-one of the guys we ran with had an early corolla (82?) that the unit body was literally falling apart-think 1 in gaps between front rail and inner fender/strut mount....now I know any car abused enough will not last forever with the beating they take on the track, but would like it to last for a couple seasons-if I can keep it off the walls I am leaning Saturn/Cavalier just due to parts and car availability....sooo many here

EG or EK Civic EX trim. (Or Si in the EGs i believe.)

I think.... 92-00?

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

That sounds right to me.

The hot ticket for fixing body damage and rust is to pump the area full of expanding foam. It is then indestructable.

2nd generation Preludes and 3rd generation Accords seem to be competitive when they race on dirt. All of them had a single cam and 12 valves, manuals are stupidly easy to find, and they're cheap because they're not popular with the JDM,Y0! crowd. Accord hatchbacks are the heaviest of the Accords, coupes are the lightest. No one I know has weighed the hatch from a hatchback, but I'd say that you could lose a good bit of weight losing that heavy glass.

The 88/89 Accord exhaust manifold is good for 2-3 HP on an engine that came with a 4-1 manifold, a B16 intake manifold needs just a couple of bolt holes redrilled and it fits, for another bump in HP, but at a loss of torque.

Over on 3geez, we have several people that use the Accords as dirt track cars, and they seem to do rather well with them, often beating the snot out of the 2.2 Cavs. I'm not sure if there's much cheating going on there, as around here, those Cavs are considered the fast cars for the track.

A big thing the Accords and Preludes have going for them is a good suspension. The Accords have a better rear, but they both have a similar front. You can swap in Prelude upper A-arms in the front for camber adjustability that looks stock. The wheels are 4x100, so you can use all of the cheap wheels that the JDM,Y0! guys sell for practically nothing. I think the center bore is the only thing keeping Miata wheels off of the cars, as IIRC, the Miata has a smaller center bore than a Honda wheel. Willingness to have that drilled out gets you into the light Miata wheels.

Over the years, a lot of parts were changed through updates. If you can update/backdate a car, which I'm sure wouldn't ever be noticed even if pointed out, you can put together a decent setup.

I hate to say it but Neon would be good, light cheap and did I mention cheap...

Neon parts are scarce, due to everyone running them-and the tech inspectors know what to look for....

Leaning toward the Civic/Accord ideas, really liking the 3g Accord idea-lots of em, lots of parts.....

will keep y'all updated on what my searches uncover

Derick Freese wrote: 2nd generation Preludes and 3rd generation Accords seem to be competitive when they race on dirt. All of them had a single cam and 12 valves, manuals are stupidly easy to find, and they're cheap because they're not popular with the JDM,Y0! crowd.

When I was racing mini stock, there was one of these in our class. It was easily the fastest car on the track... when it ran. He went through motors like I went through gas. He blew up 7 in one year.

Any ideas on the 4th gen Accord? Much more plentiful around here, and the 3g's I am finding are carb models (as well as automatics, which I know I dont want) and that Toyota has made me desire fuel injection like you would not believe......have to keep factory carb, and being my first new car dealer job was at a Honda store in 1988 I know what a mess it can be trying to make those run correctly, with or without worrying about emissions

Other possible canidates? Or might just have to wait until I get back to Southern California to find a riced and raped EG Civic

Cavaliers seem to rule on our local dirt track. There used to be a little bit of everything, shadows, preludes, escorts, etc, now everyone just runs Cavaliers, got to think they're on to something there...

As much as I hate being a conformist, if you're looking to get started, a good starting point is to copy what everyone else is doing, then go from there...

RE: Saturns mentioned in this thread. NO. The SOHC is a complete turd. There are plenty of competitive DOHC models in rulesets that allow them, but SOHC/8v/100hp cars suck. Its also hard to find power and they have a short power band as well (only rev to 5500).

SOHC Civic or Neon would be my choice.

I'll stick with 84-87 civic/crx. Again, how many Accords and Preludes have you seen consistently dominating at autocross for the last 25+ years?

CLynn85 wrote: Cavaliers seem to rule on our local dirt track. There used to be a little bit of everything, shadows, preludes, escorts, etc, now everyone just runs Cavaliers, got to think they're on to something there... As much as I hate being a conformist, if you're looking to get started, a good starting point is to copy what everyone else is doing, then go from there...

Been looking for a manual Cavafire (at a reasonable price-i.e.cheap) have not seen one, the Accords in a manual seem a lot more available...

And I did go and drive a Saturn-thought it might be slow because something is wrong, then I drove another-and yes they are gutless

With the low speeds that these are racing at, is a clutch a must? I would think so, but open to advise!

84-87 Civic/CRX is going to have a carb unless I find a Si, and seems like a unicorn

I would take being a competitive conformist over a losing unique little smowflake

Trivia: The original SOHC Neons were apparently detuned from the factory when development mules would run neck and neck with the DOHC cars. Still, 132 hp ain't nothing to sneeze at.

DOHC Saturns could be a lot of fun, are relatively light, and are also basically a space-frame from the factory, since the plastic panels aren't really structurally sound. Nice to have a little extra structure around you when you're wheel to wheel. No DOHC-not worth it.

B13 Sentras are a really fun, light chassis, but I've never driven a single-cam model.