Any one else excited? New TVR Griffith!

Keith, people like to be different and love rarity. I’m sure that if for your same $80k you could offer them a full carbon fiber tub, thousand horsepower LS engine, carbon brakes, bespoke chassis components and whale dick leather interior. If it still looked like a Miata then they would still rather have the TVR 11 times out of 10.

For me, despite the fact that the ND is far superior to any other Miata that came before it, for some reason it just doesn’t appeal to me. I can’t figure out why. My preference goes in order; NA,  NC, NB and ND in last place. I know it’s not rational I know it doesn’t make sense it’s the emotional tug of the vehicles.

 Now, even if I had the money I probably wouldn’t be interested in the TVR unless they offer a two pedal version. Yes I’ve said it. I’m done with three pedals!

I’ll admit, when I saw the picture, I thought, “Gee, it looks a lot like an NB”

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I’d like to preference everything I’m about to say with the fact that I know very little about cars. Anybody with even a minuscule amount of common sense should listen to Keith over me regarding anything automotive. So with that out of the way here’s why I think people would prefer the TVR over the FM. 

To me the biggest thing is that with a FM you need to explain what it’s NOT and with the TVR you get to explain what it IS. Now this isn’t all bad, the FM is the sleeper of all sleepers. Why? Because people think it’s “just a Miata”

Another factor might be the availability of traction control and ABS. As I understand it your cars are not available with this. I doubt this would be a big factor in anyone’s decision but it’s there. 

(Edit: FM cars DO have ABS I was mistaken)

Fixed hardtop, personally I prefer them. I would guess more people would prefer the top options of the FM though. 

I don’t think you’re giving the TVR a fair shake either. You keep saying it’s not a “real tvr” and qualifying this against the 90s products. To me it goes back to the old M series of the 70s (see picture above). The only TVR I’ve seen in person and the line that turned me on to the company. A few even came with ford v8s. 

Yeah it doesn’t have a “glass body”, it has a carbon fiber one. Is it really bad that they decided to use an engine that’s proven reliable (and already passed emissions in California)? Do we want a wacky interior? To me the brought back the cool 70s cars and made them more appealing. So what if a rich dude just bought the badge?Im sure he did it because he loves TVR, because I don’t see them making a ton of money.

Again, I think the FM cars are awesome and you have a great company. Dollars vs capability the FM wins all day everyday...and not just against the TVR, but most everything. 

I’d buy the FM Miata in a heartbeat. 

I don’t have the money. (But I do have an FM turbo Miata)

Of course, that also means I won’t be buying a TVR. 

Always been a tvr fan.   I’d love to play with this one. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I call it the super model effect. When you get to that level of goodness it is a personal choice that is not made based on logic.  

I am now going to probably going to piss of more than a few here by saying the TVR sounds like it is just a re bodied mustang cobra/gt500/Roush. (TVR would be smart if this is what they did). That is not a bad thing but it blows a bunch of the magic sprinkles off of the TVR. 

Adrian_Thompson said:

Keith, people like to be different and love rarity. I’m sure that if for your same $80k you could offer them a full carbon fiber tub, thousand horsepower LS engine, carbon brakes, bespoke chassis components and whale dick leather interior. If it still looked like a Miata then they would still rather have the TVR 11 times out of 10.

For me, despite the fact that the ND is far superior to any other Miata that came before it, for some reason it just doesn’t appeal to me. I can’t figure out why. My preference goes in order; NA,  NC, NB and ND in last place. I know it’s not rational I know it doesn’t make sense it’s the emotional tug of the vehicles.

 Now, even if I had the money I probably wouldn’t be interested in the TVR unless they offer a two pedal version. Yes I’ve said it. I’m done with three pedals!

What I’m hearing here is that FM needs to build a car from a clean sheet of paper!!! Do it Keith!!!

dean1484 said:

I call it the super model effect. When you get to that level of goodness it is a personal choice that is not made based on logic.  

Whoa, who said anything about TVRs being good cars? They barely work. Someone once gave me a ride along in a really nice looking Chimaera at a vintage event. Or rather, he tried. The car literally broke in the paddock while we were driving to the grid.

It was still an awesome experience and I would love to own one. It will live in the garage next to my Toyota truck in case I have to get somewhere without stopping on the side of the road.

Super models have been known to come with very high maintenance requirements. Also you actually never get to meet a supermodel. You get to view them from a distance. 

In reply to dean1484 :

The only thing it shares with a mustang is the engine. I believe it does use the same manual as the GT350. 

80sFast said:

In reply to dean1484 :

The only thing it shares with a mustang is the engine. I believe it does use the same manual as the GT350. 

And to the un educated that makes it just a re bodied mustang. LOL. This is not a bad thing but as soon as the word mustang is used to compair it to it very quickly changes it appeal doesn’t it.  

To further my argument of the absurd and using the same logic is the Miata really a re bodied corvette?  So what we are really having here is the age old ford versus gm argument. 

People get so passionate about this kind of stuff. 

In reply to dean1484 :

I guess I see it a bit different than you. That’s cool, to each their own. 

dean1484 said:

Super models have been known to come with very high maintenance requirements. Also you actually never get to meet a supermodel. You get to view them from a distance. 

A lot of them are super normal people just like you and I. Their profession is one thing but I promise 99% of them don't see themselves like 99% think they do. Your view from a distance gives you an inaccurate assumption of who/how they are. 

Perception maaaaaan.  

dean1484 said:

80sFast said:

In reply to dean1484 :

The only thing it shares with a mustang is the engine. I believe it does use the same manual as the GT350. 

And to the un educated that makes it just a re bodied mustang. LOL. This is not a bad thing but as soon as the word mustang is used to compair it to it very quickly changes it appeal doesn’t it.  

To further my argument of the absurd and using the same logic is the Miata really a re bodied corvette?  So what we are really having here is the age old ford versus gm argument. 

People get so passionate about this kind of stuff. 

You're reaching like Mr Fantastic now lol

In reply to yupididit :

No, I think he has a valid point. Check out this re-body f150.

In reply to 80sFast :

I rather fancy this re-bodied TL with a turbo kit:

This is a killer corvette body kit

I don't understand the mind of a person that doesn't get excited about a new TVR. 

I don't understand the mind of a person that completely invalidates a new TVR because an aftermarket company can perfectly integrate a powerful engine into what is at its core a cheap, ugly (my opinion) Japanese high production sports car.

In the end it's just a motor swap. As impressive as it is. Aside from a few specs on paper they have nothing in common with each other in the real world. Until FM decides to go all RUF and start putting their own VINs on their builds.

In reply to Nick Comstock :

I don’t think Keith was trying to invalidate anything, more just trying to understand the competition. 

In reply to Nick Comstock :

I think possibly (this is my opinion) that Keith sees this car on paper being comparable to their FM ND product. And he compares it to his baby that he loves and wants to know what magic is his baby missing. Performance wise, the FM stuff got it and 20k cheaper. The new TVR is special in a rare cool exciting unique way. The FM cars are special in an almost perfecting the v8 swap miata sleeper way. 

But, you're right it's a miata with a very well executed v8 swap. Which is awesome too.

For me: $50k and under I can see myself justifying a FM NDRF. $60K to $100k I can't. There's about 10 cars that are im that range that are absolute fantasies of mine too own one day. Most of them aren't as fast as an FM car. 

To be fair there’s lots of 100k cars that I’d take a FM over too. 

Keith Tanner said:

Thanks, 80s. It's a serious question because I want to know why people would prefer a TVR over our offerings. This new car isn't a TVR in any real way - (relatively) sedate styling, a non-TVR engine, a normal interior. The only thing that makes it TVR is the badge. All of the reasons you gave for why you'd prefer this car to one of ours would still be true if this was badged as a Stutz. But it's somehow got some sort of magic sprinkles that make people think it's better, and I want to see if those magic sprinkles can be applied to a custom car built on high quality roots instead of a small volume manufacturer that bought a name.

It was only in the mid to late 90s and the 2000s that tvr had their own engines the vast majority of their history used other manufacturers engines ,ford,rover,triumph etc.

Adrian_Thompson said:

For me, despite the fact that the ND is far superior to any other Miata that came before it, for some reason it just doesn’t appeal to me. I can’t figure out why. My preference goes in order; NA,  NC, NB and ND in last place. I know it’s not rational I know it doesn’t make sense it’s the emotional tug of the vehicles.

I also don't dig the ND that much although it's technically the best Miata ever. It's not easy on the eyes IMO. My preference is NA,ND,NB,NC and I'll admit that between the first 3 it's mostly looks making the difference. The way I see it, any car with just 2 seats and a tiny trunk needs to bring its A-game in both performance and looks to make up for the low practicality. The Toyobaru is in the same ballpark performance-wise and price-wise but is much easier on the eyes and a much more practical car, which is why I would spend my money on one but not on an ND.

yupididit said:

dean1484 said:

80sFast said:

In reply to dean1484 :

The only thing it shares with a mustang is the engine. I believe it does use the same manual as the GT350. 

And to the un educated that makes it just a re bodied mustang. LOL. This is not a bad thing but as soon as the word mustang is used to compair it to it very quickly changes it appeal doesn’t it.  

To further my argument of the absurd and using the same logic is the Miata really a re bodied corvette?  So what we are really having here is the age old ford versus gm argument. 

People get so passionate about this kind of stuff. 

 

You're reaching like Mr Fantastic now lol

Oh most definitely I am and having fun stirring the pot if you know what I mean. 

So is a Ford GT just a rebodied F150?  Ok I will try and stop now but I am having fun with it.