Any track rats running rt660s yet?

It's that time to start prepping for next season and I have a couple options I'm playing out. I've been pretty happy with my re71s this year, but the new Falkens are cheaper possibly depending on Stones rebates. Rt660s also look to be slightly faster, but I have only seen the GRM article earlier this year on a car that was camber challenged IIRC for the track test.

So, while I may run some autocross this year, my only main concern is running on track. Car is an FRS so lightweight-ish, and if not for an alignment mishap the re71s I have ran would have netted me a few more track days easily. If the wear rate is only slightly quicker than the re71s, then the rt660s would be my choice. Tires will also now be trailered to events so no more street miles to and from tracks or autocross. Big plus I think.

A052 looks to be a great tire, but over $200 more per set than the rt660 with what I understand to be a fairly aggressive wear rate . That's also been said about the re71s so clearly it's car and driving style dependent too. Someone said they make re71s look like all seasons which is unnerving. I am budgeting two sets of tires, so an additional $400 hit is only acceptable if it doesn't become three sets.

Another potential option is just one set of sticker R7s for the season. Until I have dyno results I won't know if I can take the points hit, but I've also heard they heat cycle out long before the tread runs out. I don't want to pay $1200 in tires for a couple competitive days, then lose a big advantage the rest of the season. Take offs may be cheaper, but again I'm not getting the best of the tires ability at that point.  Also I still need something for possible rainy days.

Anyone have insight relatable?

Spacecadet has been running them. He swears by them. I imagine he'll be along shortly to go in-depth on them.

I also noticed the width is a bit more on the Falkens and Yokos.

R7's are not a season long tire, unless your season is two events.  I haven't run the rt660's, I'll probably try them when I wear the current rt615k+'s out.

~20 sessions on my RT660's. I run an E36 with 17x9 wheels shod on 245/40/17 tires, which is the same as what many twin owners run.

I have the proper camber for my car confirmed by a pyrometer and the tire wear has been minimal. No delamination and weird center rib wear here. They also last 20 minute sessions fine, better than RE-71R's in my opinion. My favorite tires were the RE-71R but is now the RT660. I did not like the way the Rival S 1.5 felt on track and never really autocrossed them.  I have not tried A052's on my car.

If you have 4 minutes to spare, I made a short Youtube video of my tire impressions. This one is after ~20 sessions, but I did one after ~10 and ~6 too.

Video link

MINIzguy said:

~20 sessions on my RT660's. I run an E36 with 17x9 wheels shod on 245/40/17 tires, which is the same as what many twin owners run.

I have the proper camber for my car confirmed by a pyrometer and the tire wear has been minimal. No delamination and weird center rib wear here. They also last 20 minute sessions fine, better than RE-71R's in my opinion. My favorite tires were the RE-71R but is now the RT660. I did not like the way the Rival S 1.5 felt on track and never really autocrossed them.  I have not tried A052's on my car.

If you have 4 minutes to spare, I made a short Youtube video of my tire impressions. This one is after ~20 sessions, but I did one after ~10 and ~6 too.

Video link

Do you have any experience with 615k+ vs the 660? I won't need tires until the summer, hopefully but I've liked how well the 615s handle a full season. 

In reply to MINIzguy :

Good info!  Are you driving to and from track? Also looks like if you flipped after about 10 sessions the wear would be a little more ideal?

In reply to Error404 :

If the 660 is similar to a re71r, the 615k is a ways off the pace. I have ran the re71 and the 615k. I loved the consistent grip from the 615 and the great wear characteristics, but if you want to be any where near the pointy end look elsewhere. Also the 615k is pretty much discontinued so if you want a tire for just consistent laps and lots of them get the RS4.

It's true that the Hoosiers heat cycle out quickly, but my n=1 is that even after they're heat cycled out they're about as fast as RE-71's. In a light car they can last a decently long time as long as you're not driving them to the track. I put probably 30 sessions on a set of SM-7's on my Miata and they were still going strong until I flat spotted one of them. Obviously worthless in the rain though.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

I've read they require more camber than a 200tw, is that a part of the equation that also needs to be considered? I've also seen elsewhere a similar comparison to re71 times when HC out, so maybe some takeoffs are actually worth the ~$400?

In reply to captainawesome :

My car is still coming together, literally and figuratively, so consistency, confidence, lifespan are the goals for a set of tires. That's why I went with 615s in the first place, they're affordable, consistent, and last a while with me being mean to them. I've read on the other 660 thread that they are directional, not a plus for me, and wear more like the RE71s thanks to being a pointy-ended tire. When I'm ready for pointy end stuff the plan is Toyo.

Sounds like RS4s are my next tire. 

Some GRM testing on the subject. 

captainawesome said:

In reply to MINIzguy :

Good info!  Are you driving to and from track? Also looks like if you flipped after about 10 sessions the wear would be a little more ideal?

I do drive to and from the track. The car doesn't get street miles otherwise. I didn't notice any appreciable wear doing street miles and I have zero toe all around. I don't think flipping would help in my situation; running 31-32psi will cause enough sidewall flex that the outer shoulder will scrub more than the inside.

Error404 said:

Do you have any experience with 615k+ vs the 660? I won't need tires until the summer, hopefully but I've liked how well the 615s handle a full season. 

I don't have any experience with the RT615K+ unfortunately.

I had similar shoulder wearing on my re71s this year, but flipped them to get a more even wear after. The two tracks I currently go to are mainly CCW so the passengers get the brunt of the punishment. Flipping saved the life of them into easily a couple more track days(I believe). One thing I did manage to do before they got flipped though was run them backwards to help even shoulder wear. No rain was in the forecast and I didn't have time to get to the tire shop. I didn't die, and handling was on par with the correct direction. I wish I did the same with my first two sets of 615k+ as it could have saved me quite a few bucks.

Either way though, the videos were perfect. No fluff, just your data.

In reply to MINIzguy :

I do drive to and from the track. The car doesn't get street miles otherwise. I didn't notice any appreciable wear doing street miles and I have zero toe all around. I don't think flipping would help in my situation; running 31-32psi will cause enough sidewall flex that the outer shoulder will scrub more than the inside.

NickD said:

Spacecadet has been running them. He swears by them. I imagine he'll be along shortly to go in-depth on them.

HA! others have already said exactly what i experienced.

I did catch Andy Hollis on Facebook talking about a group of Spec Miata racers at harris hill running their track members club championship who all had random center rib issues. like different cars having different tires with random center ri issues..

His recommendation was to get a good heat cycle in them.. and I had done that on mine.. my RT660 got about 400 miles of street use in the week before they went on track.

They can be flipped, they run times comparable to the RE71R and they're cheaper than all the other Fast 200tw tires usually by a large margin.

I will also add the caveat.. do not overdrive them.. they will not respond well to it and you'll burn through them.

captainawesome said:

I had similar shoulder wearing on my re71s this year, but flipped them to get a more even wear after. The two tracks I currently go to are mainly CCW so the passengers get the brunt of the punishment. Flipping saved the life of them into easily a couple more track days(I believe). One thing I did manage to do before they got flipped though was run them backwards to help even shoulder wear. No rain was in the forecast and I didn't have time to get to the tire shop. I didn't die, and handling was on par with the correct direction. I wish I did the same with my first two sets of 615k+ as it could have saved me quite a few bucks.

Either way though, the videos were perfect. No fluff, just your data.

Whoops, my last sentence didn't make any sense as it was too early in the morning for me. I wouldn't have flipped at 10 sessions as it would have been too early and the sidewall flex would have made the wear uneven 10 sessions later. They wear well enough that I also wonder if they would heat cycle out before cording, negating the new tire savings by going slower.

Either way, I've frozen my RT660's this winter as I sold all my spare wheels and left the track car outside. They're currently in 6" of snow. My next update won't be a continuation of sessions, but rather "how off pace RT660's are after spending a winter outdoors?"

In reply to MINIzguy :

People are always interested to hear how the cold weather spikes kill high performance tires. Could be a good test to run.

captainawesome said:

In reply to MINIzguy :

People are always interested to hear how the cold weather spikes kill high performance tires. Could be a good test to run.

An update after leaving my RT660's outside since October; they were under 18" of snow and freezing weather for 5+ months. The good news is that the tires are weather agnostic!

I went to NJMP Lightning and clicked off consistent 1:18's with a 1:17.9 fast lap. My previous best was a 1:17.8. Ambient temp was in the mid-80's and cooled a little when I hit that 17. The only change in the car setup was a slight bump in rear spring rate. The tires felt perfect from the warmup lap and were consistent throughout 3 sessions.

In reply to MINIzguy :

Good to know. I recently purchased a set of these for my turbo NA Miata and so far am impressed with grip. Unfortunately I'm fighting coolant temps so not really able to see their true limits yet. From what I have driven so far the ONLY negative was they felt more numb to me than the RE71s were on my FRS. That's an unfair  comparison though as I had 18" tires on slightly wider rims with less sidewall and a completely different chassis.

I think one of the keys is to not drive the tires in the cold weather.  The rubber can't handle the stresses imposed by driving below certain temperatures.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

I think one of the keys is to not drive the tires in the cold weather.  The rubber can't handle the stresses imposed by driving below certain temperatures.

hoosiers, super 200's, track day rubber, and proper summer tires all really need to be kept above 50 at all times, running them lower threatens to change the characteristics of the rubber and they'll lose speed, plus if they get cold cold and are shocked coming back up to temp too quickly... they can have much worse issues like chunking... 

Ok, last update on my RT660's. After ~2 seasons, one NJ winter outside, and 30 sessions, my set has finally HC'd out. They still have tread though, so I'll keep using them until I get sick of going slow.

In reply to MINIzguy :

Thanks for the update! I picked up another set of RS4's for my E28 this spring when I found a set but based on your experience and our very similar usage I think I'll try these next (which will be in 2023 with the way the Hankook's last).

If you wouldn't mind one more update to the thread when you finally change them out it would be appreciated, it doesn't need to be a video though.

I am CONSTANTLY rotating my tires front and rear to make sure I get the most life out of them on the Fit.

I throw the Fit HARD into corners to get the car to rotate and so the rear tires do see a lot of use and slip angle, but not nearly as much hard wear as the fronts.

I just flipped my tires after about 6-7 hours of hard track time over the past 2 months. They also had sessions last summer at Road America, but lived in the AC inside my apartment all fall and winter and road america wasn't hard on them at all.

I ran Blackhawk Farms, Gingerman and Autobahn CC in May and June and these tires saw hours of hard running on each weekend.

I'm headed to PPIR next weekend for Gridlife Alpine Horizon Festival.. I should have flipped these before Autobahn CC event.. but logistics didn't work.

these are the 205(stated not measured) width on a 6.5" wheel.. these tires are closer to a 225 width on a 7.5 or 8 inch wheel.. they are WIDE.

adam525i said:

In reply to MINIzguy :

Thanks for the update! I picked up another set of RS4's for my E28 this spring when I found a set but based on your experience and our very similar usage I think I'll try these next (which will be in 2023 with the way the Hankook's last).

If you wouldn't mind one more update to the thread when you finally change them out it would be appreciated, it doesn't need to be a video though.

Sure thing! It may be a while for me too, as I'm starting grad school and my events might trickle down to 1 per year for the next 2 years. As long as they don't dry rot, I think my set can handle the occasional track day.