Arrgh. Car wont' tell me what's wrong..

I'm used to that from old British and Italian stuff, but an OBD-II car usually tells you exactly what's wrong.

Got a friend's 2001 Cavalier w/2.2 OHV engine (I know, that's what's wrong, right there...but I digress). Said it wouldn't start. Well, made sure it had a good battery charge and tried to crank it over. Cranks over fine. So I put the OBD connector on, first time didn't have it quite seated and it said it couldn't connect. Pushed the connector all the way on and got a connection but it said no codes.

Well, I was going to do a "tune up" anyhow, so I changed the spark plugs, and while I had them out, checked compression. Seemed ok. When cranking there didn't seem to be any noises like broken timing chain or pistons eating valves... Put the plugs in, and before connecting all of them, I put a plug in a wire and laid it on the valve cover to check spark. Had spark. Hmm.

When turning the key on, you can hear the fuel pump fire up for a couple seconds like normal. Checked the fuel pressure regulator, and there's fuel at the rail. Put some starting fluid in it and fired it up. Ran good and smooth for about 10 seconds, til it ran out of fluid. So obviously the crank position sensor is working and the cam position sensor is working. Which I'd figure considering it didn't throw codes for them. And it runs smoothly so the ignition is doing it's job, and the timing seems fine. it'll fire up every time on the starting fluid. And while it's running, there's no check engine light (though it does light up when it's cranking, so the bulb works)

I guess I need to check fuel pressure next. I was thinking fuel filter, but usually if it's getting by the filter enough to get to the rail, it'll run relatively good at idle, but not be able to rev (at least in every other EFI car I've had). I don't have a fuel pressure tester adapter that I can hook up to the car, though. Drat.

I don't want to just start throwing parts at it. I love OBD II, but not when it's telling me all's well, when it's obviously not. Time for a Scotch. I think the Aberfeldy 21 year ought to do it...

Beat the bottom of the tank with a hammer to shock the pump.

Listen to the injectors with a stethescope while cranking it over.

Get back to me.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

The pump runs, though. I had read about the banging the tank on these if the pump isn't running. But the other Idea seems good. Why might they all stop working at the same time?

Chris_V wrote: Time for a Scotch. I think the Aberfeldy 21 year ought to do it...

If I help you fix the car, can I have some of that??

Is there a schrader valve on the fuel rail? Just pressing on that while after the pump is done priming the system will let you know if the system is building pressure.

Watch out for gas in the face though.

Marty! wrote: Is there a schrader valve on the fuel rail? Just pressing on that while after the pump is done priming the system will let you know if the system is building pressure. Watch out for gas in the face though.

No, no schrader on this version. Apparently there was on the OHC versions. On this one, you're supposed to put a T in at the connection on the pressure side of the fuel rail, so I need to get an adapter. Oh, well, needed a new tool in the toolbox anyhow.. ;)

kevinSC1 wrote:

Chris_V wrote: Time for a Scotch. I think the Aberfeldy 21 year ought to do it...

If I help you fix the car, can I have some of that??

hehehe. it's sooo smooth. Bought in in Aberfeldy at the distillery a couple months ago.

any excuse to buy a new tool can't be all bad

wbjones wrote: any excuse to buy a new tool can't be all bad

...or more Scotch.

do you know where the ignition timing is? when you said runs with starting fluid, i thought ludicrous advancement. low fuel in the chamber also makes sense, maybe the injectors are clogged. it doesnt show a code because if this is a problem that doesent allow it to even start, then it cant warm up, go into closed loop, run all the monitors and tell you whats wrong.

In reply to grimmelshanks:

I would think timing is good. It sounds normal when it runs on the starter fluid. And it doesn't crank hard like if it jumped a tooth or something. I've got another ignition module and coil pack setup around here in case, but with the car running at least on the starter fluid, i doubt I'd have to swap those. And I thought about injectors being clogged, but I can't see them all being instantly clogged at once. One or two, yeah, but not all 4 without at least running poorly. Apparently it was running fine, then wouldn't start one morning. I had something similar happen on my BMW one of the first months I had it. Wouldn't start one morning, but it threw a code for cam sensor instantly. Changed it and all has been well for 3 years. I did swap out the cam sensor on the Cadavalier, but no change. Of course, the replacement could be bad, too...

I'm going to change the fuel filter, as I don't think it's been change since new (I was going to do it anyway as part of the tune-up I was going to do on it), as maybe it won't let it come up to the necessary 53-60 psi. Though I'd think that at a lower psi, the EFI would still want to dribble fuel in enough to at least try to idle poorly. On the old mechanical injection, like the CIS, the fuel pressure is what opened the injectors, so low pressure wouldn't get through. But I thought on these the injector opened regardless, just from the PCM signal. Maybe not. I'm also going to call up the dealer to see if they can test the PCM to see if it's bricked on that circuit, but I want to double check fuel pressure first. If I have proper pressure, then something's not telling the injectors to open.

This car have a factory immobilizer?

Run_Away wrote: This car have a factory immobilizer?

Won't that keep it from cranking at all, or keep it from running on starter fluid? But, as far as I know, it doesn't have an immobilizer, or remote locks, or even power locks at all. Don't think it has an alarm of any sort, though I would need a code for the radio if I disconnect the battery...

And this is damn good scotch. Just sayin'...

Many cars prime with the turn of the key but require another signal to run the fuel pump after starting. A bad AFM on older Mazda's did the same thing.

Go get 5 gallons of gas and dump in it just so you know there really is some in there.

yeah, definitely check fuel pressure!!! hahaha thats just... too necessary. maybe not aaaalll the injectors are clogged, maybe 2 or 3 and the motor cant run on 1 cylinder. if you get your hands on a way to see pressure, also try to get and injector pulser. when the line is pressurized you fire each injector individually and watch the pressure drop. the ones that drop pressure less are flowing less (clogged). this is also known as a flow test.

Chris_V wrote:

Run_Away wrote: This car have a factory immobilizer?

Won't that keep it from cranking at all, or keep it from running on starter fluid? But, as far as I know, it doesn't have an immobilizer, or remote locks, or even power locks at all. Don't think it has an alarm of any sort, though I would need a code for the radio if I disconnect the battery... And this is damn good scotch. Just sayin'...

I'm not sure about GM's, but with the Nissans I'm familiar with they will crank even if an un-registered key is used. I just did some googling, from what I can tell the GM Passlock system does disable the fuel injectors.

Is there a security light on? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080127150209AA28pI6 If it is then this is supposed to work.

mrhappy wrote: Go get 5 gallons of gas and dump in it just so you know there really is some in there.

If nothing else it will make it easier to burn

cavalier with anti-theft? hah. the worst thing about your cavalier getting stolen is you do not get enough insurance money to replace it with another good running car.

i'd check pressure. i have had gm pumps die and put out enough to make you think you had a good pump but not enough to actually run.

get a noid light and check for injector signal. as stated above, the factory anti-theft systems usually cut injector pulse. Aftermarket systems cut cranking.

The factory anti-theft system also kills the radio, and the radio works fine, and when it is running, there's no lights on the dash.

But thanks for all the suggestions!

A lot of the GMs had passive anti theft. They generally do start and then die and they generally shut down the injectors as the stopping method. Which would give you good spark all the time and the ability to run the vehicle off of starting fluid. I'd verify that the battery hasn't been swapped lately. If I remember correctly, this usually comes about when the owner has a copy of a key without the resistor in it and hasn't had a problem. The car has accepted it for months or years. Then when the battery dies it gets reset and has to be reprogrammed to that specific resistor. I seem to remember seeing this on a Lexus and a Sunfire. And you know a sunfire isn't much more than a cavalier.

Well,the Passlock anti-theft is a bust. The anti-theft light comes on with the rest of the lights when the key is turned on, but goes out almost immediately with the other lights that are supposed to go out. it still won't start and the anti theft light doesn't come back on or flash. I tried the trick of leaving the key on for 10 minutes to relearn it, but same result.

Supposedly the Passlock thing will let the car start and run for a couple seconds, then shut it off and flash the anti-theft light. And the radio dies.

Off to get a fuel pressure tester.

i'm gonna bet it's the fuel pump. went thru this exact same deal with my '97 this winter.

the good part is that it only takes about an hour to change- the bad part is that even a cheap one is $250, which is about how much the car is probably worth..

No pressure testers available, but it doesn't matter, as with a new fuel filter in it, it starts up and runs just fine. Took it around the block to make sure, and it drives quite well. The old filter would let it dribble into the fuel rail. With the new one in, the pump cleared it's throat a couple times then there was a rush of fuel up to the front.

Yay!

Considering the car was bought for $375, it looks like they'll have a good beater daily driver without a chunk of change being spent.