Yep, that's right. Back in the game after many (like 30) years. There was no internet, GRM was AutoX and I was much younger. Much in between, but we'll leave that to another thread. Here's where I'm seeking advice:
GF took a shine to Autocross, but knew little of the sport. We ran her '06 Mustang a couple of times but it's a high-mile daily driver and that concerned her. I suggested we buy a Miata so we did. 2000 Base with 65K miles. Flogged it last weekend. She's mostly about staying on course, me more about sliding sideways on 13 year old not-so-sticky tires. My plan to keep it stock (ES) for now and set up to eek out the car's best over the winter. Then we work on our skills. Prefer spending money where it will make a performance difference.
Game plan
1. Convert open diff to 4.3 LSD. Thoughts?
2. Upsize rims from 14" to 15" for better tire choice. What's the hot ticket?
3. Install strut brace. Looks like it was stock on some models.
3. Replace shocks. Looks like it has what it left the factory with. So Bilsteins? Konis?
4. Replace bushings all around. Looks like Good-Win has a comprehensive set for whole car.
5. Replace swaybar. Front? Rear? Both? It appears GCR allows one only? Not sure how to interpret.
Overall I'm pleased with purchase. In spite of my right foot problem, car exhibits poise in recovering from my overdriving. I'd sure appreciate any and all guidance and insight.
Thanks, Peter
I'm not familiar with Mustangs but for tires, you should even consider going to 17s if possible, 15s have the least-bad selection of the smaller diameters, but the best selection of tires is for 17"-19" wheels these days.
Thanks Gameboy, but the Miata mentioned is the one we'll be autocrossing. I think I'm limited to 15" as it was an option available at the time. Outside of that would move the car beyond street class. What used to be "stock" class. That's if I'm reading the solo GCR's right. The tentative plan is to better the car in stock form and perhaps modify later when the drivers have honed their skills.
Apexcarver said:
carbidetooth said:
Game plan
1. Convert open diff to 4.3 LSD. Thoughts? Might be nice, but I wouldn't put it at the top of the list. My 95 in sts was good except for wet events with an open diff.
2. Upsize rims from 14" to 15" for better tire choice. What's the hot ticket? Yup, refer to grm articles or nationals results for the class for tires. Do this first.
3. Install strut brace. Looks like it was stock on some models. Meh. Wouldn't put it high on the list.
3. Replace shocks. Looks like it has what it left the factory with. So Bilsteins? Konis? Either one is a good option. https://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/ if you want to really get it nice. Third
4. Replace bushings all around. Looks like Good-Win has a comprehensive set for whole car. Do this second.
5. Replace swaybar. Front? Rear? Both? It appears GCR allows one only? Not sure how to interpret. Last I heard, front and https://www.racingbeat.com/Miata-1990-2005/Sway-Bars.html race tubular, adjustable if it's still available. Fourth
Overall I'm pleased with purchase. In spite of my right foot problem, car exhibits poise in recovering from my overdriving. I'd sure appreciate any and all guidance and insight.
Thanks, Peter
See my edits
Thanks for your thoughts and priorty assignment. Truth be told it was just the order I thought of them in, but the numbering gave that impression.
15" will definitely give you more options for tires, it's pretty much a given. You need tires if your current ones are 13 years old.
A shock tower brace will not help with autocross, in general autocross cars reward light weight over chassis rigidity. The brace does help with some steering precision, though. I'm not sure what effect it would have on classing. If you do get a shock tower brace, get one that's properly designed - there's a lot of junk out there.
I'd take Konis over Bilsteins, even if revalved. You may also need new bumpstops, although it was the 2001-05 cars that had the disintegrating ones IIRC.
There are other sources for bushings other than Goodwin racing :) I'd use the IL Motorsports set and stay away from poly. At 65k, you may or may not need bushings. Does the car feel like it has a loose structure?
Front sway bar for sure, and you'll want an alignment to match.
Sign up for Mazda Team Support ASAP. You'll have to show that you've entered 3 autoxes or track days a year, and you'll get killer pricing on stock replacement parts. Including bushings, but they're still more expensive than the IL ones.
There are tons of great tires in the 15 inch size. I'd stay 15s.
How wide? The rule of thumb around here is that a 205 works best on an 8 inch wide wheel. Not sure how wide you can run in your class.
Also, not sure if you want the absolute stickiest tires, or something a little more tame.
Check out flyin miata for parts as well. Keith Tanner literally wrote the book for miata performance. He is on this forum and is very knowledgeable.
Edit... And Keith was apparently typing while I was.
dps214
SuperDork
10/13/23 9:22 p.m.
Just for clarity, if you're staying in street class you need oe or comparable bushings. No upgrades and definitely no poly. Same with the LSD, it has to be something you could purchase in that car in that model year. And if it was part of a larger package technically you need the rest of the package as well.
15" wheels and tires are definitely #1. For your use case falken rt660s are probably the best choice. Second swaybar, third alignment, fourth shocks. I think konis are generally the budget friendly choice. Like Keith said make sure bump stops are installed and in good condition. Leave the "strut" bar off (again it would need to be a factory piece anyway) as it does almost nothing but add weight in a bad place. Bushings if they're noticeably worn out but otherwise not worth the effort and expense.
Welcome!
I've been running local events in E Street for about 5 years. It may not make a difference whether you fully comply with the classing rules for your local events, that depends on the club that you run in and probably the other E Street drivers will cut you some slack until you start getting close to them.
That said, if you want to keep the car truly class legal, you will need to be careful what changes you make. As an example, a strut tower brace can only be class legal if it's part of a conversion to a specific OEM option package, called a hard S, commonly referred to as a Sport. A 99 or 2000 sport is the miata of choice for the class, but any NB can be competitive in local events.
I would start out with a good set of tires, and nothing else. Koni sport shocks and a front sway bar will be next, and won't change your classing. A set of 15 inch wheels will open up a lot of options for tires, but a 2000 model is limited to a six inch wide wheel. There's nothing currently in production in that size, but a set of the stock 99 and 2000 wheels can be found cheap and only weigh 13 pounds each. Eventually, the open differential may become an issue for you, but in our low power cars a good set of tires will compensate somewhat.
A summary of the rules (not complete) for Street class cars: one sway bar (only) can be removed or replaced, any shocks, stock springs, wheels can be one inch taller or shorter, but width cannot change. Only the modifications that are specifically permitted are allowed, if it's not listed as an allowed modification, it's not legal.
Not that relevant to you at present, but here's a very good summary of setting up an E Street miata.
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
So that's why autocrossers keep pushing us to make a 15x6!
Keith Tanner said:
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
So that's why autocrossers keep pushing us to make a 15x6!
That's definitely the reason. It's either stock wheels or find something that's not in production. I don't know how many you would need to sell to make it a profitable product but I would expect it to sell well. Current innovations in production methods seem to be producing some nice quality wheels at good prices.
If a wheel could be produced at about 10 lbs it would be the new hotness.
I got lucky and got two sets of the SSR type C wheels with my second Miata, about 9 pounds each. They're practically impossible to find, so the market is wide open.
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
Our Kogeki would probably come in at about 11 lbs for a 15x6, based on the weight of the 15x7. Not sure we could get them to 10 lbs without making them weaker. They're stronger than a Type C, but also considerably less expensive :) We do have real concerns about the potential size of the market, though.
Eleven pounds would be fine, especially with the advantage of additional strength.
I understand your concern about the size of the market. The 99 and 2000 Miatas aren't the only ones to be looking for 15x6 wheels, the MR2 also requires a pair for the front. They're allowed a wider wheel in the rear, I think a 6.5, possibly a seven depending on the year.
That's probably not enough of a factor in the decision, but it's still something I would like to pass along.
Oh wow, look at this! Very helpful, folks, just what I was hoping for. For now, I think I'll stay within the letter of the class, even though local events wouldn't care much unless I was obviously out-of-class. Many Miatas at the last event, but we were the sole stock one in ES. I'll look back at prior events to see what we'd potentially stack up against next season. The Hard-S handling package was what I was hoping to find, but this car came our way and the price, condition and unmodified nature were hard to ignore. Not quite a barn find, but had not been driven in a year and was in need of a serious cleaning as it lived in a dirt floor garage up a gravel lane in the boonies.
Am I overlooking some function of subscribing to a thread so I'm notified of responses?
This all gives me a more narrow focus and priority list to shoot for, but does raise some questions. Specifically, front end alignment. I'm assuming that means negative camber but how much? Should I be messing with toe as well? Caster? Although it will get street driven at times, it's primary purpose is AutoX.
As to wheels; I so wanted to put a set of Minilite, Panasport, Mishimoto banana spokes because I think the car would look killer and, well, I'm nostalgic I suppose. I'm on the hunt for stock 15".
I'll look harder at bushings. A quick glance getting ready for event showed visual deterioration, but I can't attribute handling deficiencies there. More it was my ham-fisted technique, I suspect. I do hope to gain finesse...
Thanks again.
There is some great advice on this thread. What is the consensus on front swaybar bracing? I hear that it was a priority when adding a bigger bar.
In reply to jimbob_racing :
The front sway bar mounts on an NB are...lightweight. If you put in a really big bar and load the car up with sticky rubber, you can tear them off. I suspect that sway bar binding is also an overlooked cause, as I've seen some of those big bars have trouble with that.
Running on 205 street tires on a 6" wheel, it may not be a big concern. But a brace (there are a few options) would take care of the worry.
In reply to carbidetooth :
949 Racing has some good alignment recommendations built around big front bars.
Yup, tires and seat time, tires and seat time.
And have fun and make new friends, too. :)
FWIW, the IL Motorsport bushings look just like the stockers..........not that I'm advocating you do anything that isn't class legal.
carbidetooth said:
Am I overlooking some function of subscribing to a thread so I'm notified of responses?
You can add a thread to your watchlist if you want to be able to find it again later. I usually only do this for long term threads I know I'll want to come back to after a few months:
If you just want to check the status of this thread, my recommendation is to just click "your posts"
I actually never use anything but "latest topics" and "your posts". Its a relatively small forum and the sub-forums within it often make things more difficult to find.
And it begins...
With 23 years and 65K miles under the belt, she needed some love. GF says "of course it's a she and her name is Schatzi". Engine appears good internally and car will get the following in the next few weeks.
New timing and accessory belts. Flyin' Miata and Rock Auto
New brake flex lines from Flyn' Miata. Also master cyl brace.
Clutch slave had a slight leak, so I'll replace master and slave. FM
New fuel filter FM
Replace diff and trans lube with synthetic. Local and eBay
Koni Sports via Marketplace. Too good to pass up!
Got PACO alignment setup from FM on black Friday deal.
Shift boots and shifter rebuild kit. FM
A set of 15" stock wheels also on Marketplace.
Tires TBD, but we have all winter!
For me, this is the way to get to know the car and also the Miata community. Big shout out to Keith and crew at Flyin' Miata for videos, catalog info etc. My hope was to get something that had a big knowledge and experience base which Miata certainly has. I think we chose the right car, too. After a good pressure wash, underside shows very little in the way of off-road excursions typical of the of so many of these Pinch welds are perfect. Right fender and bumper cover have been resprayed but I can't find significant damage deeper. Pretty unusual to find an unmolested 2000 anything. A good starting point, I think.
You'll notice something else too. GF knows all about sewing clothing, but wants to learn upholstery. It's a 1954 model. I've got it mostly ready to go, but I'm waiting on some bits to make it sew again. Gearheads pay attention now. Sewing machines are almost as fascinating as cars.
Nice find and much congratulations.
