"Autocross" on a racetrack

I know how I feel about calling an event that uses a full race course to do an autocross, but how does the hive feel? Considering the speeds possible and the time spent at those speeds should the word autocross be used? The old solo 2 chief of safety in me gets really concerned when I read about these events. Small 1/4 mile ovals using the infield pavement is one thing. Full mile or more roadcourses, even with slaloms added to straights and cones in curves, seems like trouble waiting to happen. Especially for the uninitiated. Can we just not use the word autocross? Have you participated in any of these? Thoughts?

If it's twisty enough, no problem, it's just a space for a course. I do suspect though that the organizers won't be able to resist having a larger/faster course because, well, the space is there. Higher speeds... yeah, starts getting sketchy, especially for those who haven't previously thrown a car around at those speeds.

I like that Out Motorsports calls their event on the Shenandoah Circuit of Summit Point a Trackcross. 

Legally I think an autocross has a max speed of 70. And much cheaper insurance requirements, which may be the real reason. Tell K&K it's an autox along with a course design to match, advertise it as an autox and you can run with much lower costs and safety requirements. 

We used to run legitimate autox events at our local kart track. But K&K no longer allows that, which has basically taken the track off limits due to costs.

It's not the speed potential that's the concern, it's the lack of paved runoff. 

+1 for the use of trackcross being the appropriate term and insurance policies dictating the usage of terminology. 

We called them scde (short course driver education) or trackcross when i was working with motorsports for the masses. 

We did slaloms on the straights with tire walls to slow down top speeds.

I like the term trackcross. The one I'm thinking about is using the track's insurance rather than the club's insurance to hold the event. 

If you were doing an autocross series would you include this along with the more traditional auocrosses for points?

We once did an autocross on the same track we did our regional races on.

I stress autocross; the course designer was very cognizant of the potential for higher speeds. They pretty much left the low speed corners alone but the faster corners were pinched or turned into chicanes. The gates were also pretty narrow.

If I remember correctly it took every cone the club had to do the 1.5 mile road course. We only did it once.

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

It's not the speed potential that's the concern, it's the lack of paved runoff. 

 

+1 for the use of trackcross being the appropriate term and insurance policies dictating the usage of terminology. 

That concerned me in 2003 and 2004 at a certain GRM event....

I really like using a real race track for an autocross. Yes, add cones etc, but it's so much easier to follow and be consistent  vs a parking lot.

We do this all the time here in central Florida. We run on the go-kart track at Daytona international speedway , because they won't let us use a parking lot (For whatever reason ).

I've also run multiple events at the Firm with several clubs, including last year's state autocross championship. It's the same place that doubles as the official GRM test track. The next event is this coming Saturday, so I know where I'll be.

It's all about course design, I've gone much faster on a runway then I have on a racetrack. It's not hard to keep the speeds down, as long as the course is designed properly.

My local club calls it trackcross. I believe they use the track's insurance. These events do count for points in the autocross series, and are part of a double-header weekend with trackcross one day and a track day at the same track the following day. Track days are new for our club this year, and the trackcross provides a stepping stone for members who only have autocross experience to date.

Adams Motorsports Park is a go-karting track in the middle of Riverside, CA that runs "time attack nights" that let you run the full course in your road going vehicle. Autox speeds on track. 

I also know that Oregon Raceway Park has "trackcross" (I think Bridge City Autosports runs this event), which is just the ORP track + some slaloms and whatnot going down the middle of the main straight. 

I also think that SCCA runs trackcross during their time attack events where half the course is the track and the other half is a cone course in the infield. 

I don't think cheating the top speed limits is necessarily a track use issue...I used to run an autocross series that was set up on a track 90% of the time and the speeds were nothing unusual by autocross standards. They were ordinary autocross courses (well, maybe with more gymkhana/dexterity influence than most) that happened to be on a track. I've run an event at an airstrip with miles of pavement, but there still wasn't room to exceed 70mph due to the course layout. And I've done an event in a train station parking lot surrounded by urban traffic that pushes higher speeds than that airport event because the course designers like to pack drag strips into the course.

We (Out Motorsports) call it Trackcross and the speeds are higher than autocross. It's marketed as "autocross format on a real racetrack" which is to say the style of competition is autocrossy but 1) you're not in a parking lot and 2) speeds are higher, prepare for that. Insurance is through a third party, not the racetrack (don't ask me more on that, my co-host handles those details so I know little) and we follow the same rules as NASA for which cars are allowed or not on the course. That means no convertibles without bolt-in roll bars and a broomstick test.

Shenandoah has a fairly long straight that we used last summer, and we added some chicanes to it to keep people from entering the braking zone at "unreasonable for $1,500 K-Car brakes" speeds.

We ran autocrosses at a local private race track. We turned the front straight into grid, then used slaloms and offsets to slow down all the other straights and used gates to keep people in the right spots at corners. We also had a rule of "all four tires off and you're done for the day." Worked great, never had an incident. Then the track booted us because we were "devaluing the track" by "giving people the impression they could get out on the track for under $100".

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

We do this all the time here in central Florida. We run on the go-kart track at Daytona international speedway , because they won't let us use a parking lot (For whatever reason ).

I've also run multiple events at the Firm with several clubs, including last year's state autocross championship. It's the same place that doubles as the official GRM test track. The next event is this coming Saturday, so I know where I'll be.

It's all about course design, I've gone much faster on a runway then I have on a racetrack. It's not hard to keep the speeds down, as long as the course is designed properly.

I think they ran the daytona parking lot before, but I heard something about the track not wanting to damage the pavement? There might be a thread about it on autocross buddies from a few years ago about it...Ford used it before for their ecoboost driving events too...

Isn't this sort of what Solo 1 is/used to be? 

I've done it before, the local Corvette club has had an annual event on July 4 weekend at Waterford Hills where they use about 3/4 of the track and cone up the fast bits to slow you down.

If cars driving on a track is too scary, there are always cars shows.

Racebrick said:

If cars driving on a track is too scary, there are always cars shows.

I was at Autoclub Speedway in Fontana CA for a track day event, and at the same time there was a car show going on. For us to get out to the track meant driving through the car show. What made it humorous though was that the car show was all about imports with chrome, stance and insane camber, all things to imply "fast". We got a few looks but most participants ignored us, them likely aware, deep down, about what was what. If anyone had said something, I'd have replied, "Okay, come out and show us."

I've never autocrossed or even been to an autocross so my perception is likely skewed but I think of autocross as a low risk event where participants are unlikely to run into anything.  I know that there are serious autocrossers and I don't look down at it as a form of motorsport but I feel like the low risk to equipment and people is a key part.  Single car timed laps on a race track seems like time attack to  me even if you add extra turns with cones.

NickD said:

Then the track booted us because we were "devaluing the track" by "giving people the impression they could get out on the track for under $100".

I want to trap this elitism inside a dome before it can spread.

I did one once. It was called a "trackcross". Even though the speeds were lower I felt like it was more dangerous than a track day at the same track because you were putting the car on the limit in some places and at some angles that were different than what the track was designed for. 

Get Fast Events does this at Summit Point and does it very well. Exceptional safety processes, a great amount of track time and overall feel. Cant say well enough things about the organization and the type of event. 

They will run on Shenandoah with dual courses occasionally, one timed and one practice course on either end(one through bus stop/carousel, the other through pistol grip).

We did the event last October with dual courses and received basically non-stop track time for the entire day. It wasnt an HPDE but we easily got 2+ hours on track at speed with both courses throughout the day. Ridiculous amount of time on track for $200ish. They even started offering the tracks crown victorias on the drift pad as an extra during the day. 

We ran the Champ Car Elantra in the dual course event to get its feet wet with some of our new teammates. All felt it was well worth the money and time. We hashed out some issues prior to the Champ race at VIR which really helped us to keep it on track. The photo of our car in the GRM thread on the build is actually during the GFE Summit Point Main event a few years ago in the rain(which sucked driving in).

I didn't mention that Saturday's autocross at the FIRM is followed in the afternoon by a "Track Sprint." Single lap, standing start, flying finish, no cones. Cars will be sent out in sequence. It's being described as an autocross without cones. My miata doesn't have a roll bar, so I'm going to be driving my civic.