Binky has a little brother coming.

In reply to steronz :

I agree. I thought it was bad form for a spec series. 

I think the point is to have fun and show the absurdity of things.  They even said they don't expect to get away with them all.  They are trying to make a Web series.  They got the car, they prepared the car, they raced the car, they tested the car.  Now is the sensible time to make the car go faster.  They even pointed out that unlike  most rule sets it doesn't contain the phrase (or equivalent) 'you can't do anything unless specifically stated'  I think they want some of this to get thrown out, like the rear 'I'm not an anti roll bar honest, anti roll bar'.  A lot of what makes Bad Obsession the best series on youtube is the humor and over the top nature of what they do.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

And if they were really bent on cheating, I doubt they would video all the details. They'll probably end up selling "not an anti-roll bar" copies to all their competitor friends. I did like the rules interpretation rationalizing the bolted-on brackets to the cage though.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

Sell to their competitors?!?!

They showed them how to make them! Lol.

gearheadmb said:

In reply to steronz :

I agree. I thought it was bad form for a spec series. 

Are you kidding?  Spec series are where all the creative interpretations thrive.  If everyone has the same car, then even the most minor improvements can make a significant difference.

I didn't get to see the rear suspension bushing setup, but if it's a ramped bushing, there are turn-in gains to be had by installing the bushing backwards.  Turns the toe-in under lateral loads to toe-out.

Wonder how much of the radiator can be blocked off before the engine runs too hot.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

gearheadmb said:

In reply to steronz :

I agree. I thought it was bad form for a spec series. 

Are you kidding?  Spec series are where all the creative interpretations thrive.  If everyone has the same car, then even the most minor improvements can make a significant difference.

If everyone has the same car then the race should be competitive and the best driver should have the best chance to win, even if he doesn't have the most money. You're right that's dumb, who would want that. 

This felt like it fell outside of the spirit of competition for me, even if it doesn't technically break any rules. Especially considering they came in 2nd on their first race.

In reply to gearheadmb :

They came in 2nd, how much was Richard's driving skill (a not insignificant amount don't get me wrong) and how much was their vehicle prep?  They started with a fairly low mile example, they replaced all of the bushings, brakes, and set it up with a proper alignment and corner weighting.

Now.  I don't want to be the guy saying "well HE has to be cheating" but Grindrod was, what, two seconds a lap faster?  And the rest of the field wasn't massively behind the C1 WRC.  So one wonders where all that extra speed is coming from...

And who knows?  New class, new series, there may be a lot of setup secrets to learn.

They were only 1.7 seconds off the fast guys pace in qualifying and 1 second off his fast lap during the race. He states going into the qualy session that it was his first time driving this track and this looks like a track that in a low horsepower car it wouldn't be hard to give up a second or two to a more experienced driver. Add to that no testing time with the car and leaving legal mods on the table like the rear camber and it is not hard to see why they are slightly off the pace to the leader.

They are also running with other faster groups on track which he mentions seem to slow him in the braking zones and corners, I'd imagine running as their own group on track (like they will in 2021) will make a big difference to how the field stays together. Lots of drafting down the straights and no out of class cars coming through breaking them up.

I think the lap timer/data log system is the best improvement they made in this episode, if I had that sitting on the shelf I would be throwing it in the car too or coming up with a solution to that.

LOLZ.

Rewatching.  They point out that most rule sets have a clause that essentially says "If we don't say you can do it, then you can't."  (As someone who has to answer rules questions, it is AMAZING how many people don't understand this, and assume the opposite.  "Well the rules didn't say I can't (remove interior/perform engine swap/etc) so I assumed it was okay...")

They point out that the "poacher turned gamekeeper" omitted that clause.

HOWEVER.  Right there in article 3, right before 3.1.1 begins, it states "...all aspects of cars being raced must remain as standard unless specifically detailed otherwise within these regulations".  That is a somewhat gray area way of saying "If we don't say you can than you cain't."  And then 3.2 further clarifies "if the following texts do not clearly elucidate that you can do something, then it is your own responsibility to seek clarification [...] Where a technical issue is disputed, the decision of the Series Organisers shall be final"

Now...  So far, that we have seen, none of the additional extras they have done have modified the car as produced by Toyota (or whoever the hell made it).  Assuming that the holes they used for the rear droop limiters were there already.  And it is also possible that they have sought, and recieved, clarifications.

I think watching the thoughts develop as to what improvements they are trying is fascinating, to be honest.  Way outside of anything I have ever had to think about, so that is really fun to watch for me, at least.  Oh, and I'd really like to work on one of those little cars ... looks simple for a modern car, compared to alot of what I'm finding myself getting into in our daily drivers in my garage now except maybe the old Civic.

einy (Forum Supporter) said:

 Oh, and I'd really like to work on one of those little cars ... looks simple for a modern car, compared to alot of what I'm finding myself getting into in our daily drivers in my garage now except maybe the old Civic.

Mazda 2.  You're welcome.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I think I really need to buy a 'secret location' garage somewhere, so I can continue to acquire cars without my wife knowing ... !

My guess is they already know that at least the rear 'Im not an anti roll bar honest, I just swallowed too much Viagra this morning bar' will certainly be ruled no bueno.  I'm not sure about the cage changes, they are deliberately trying to circumvent the intent of the rule so I'm 60/40 on them being outlawed too.  The droop limiter I bet they'll let pass.  This isn't a couple of guys filming stuff in the garage then releasing it on Self indulgent Tube for seven of their closest friends to watch.  This is a professional duo who were probably invited to join the series to give it publicity.  I bet they discussed all this with the poacher come gamekeeper before doing any of this and know exactly what will or will not be allowed.  There's only so many hits another  'We tweaked the tire pressures and went to the next race' will get.  Instead they can say 'We're going to sort of not really cheat, tune in next week to see if we can get away with it' to get eye balls and the internets twittering with excitement and discussion.  Guess what?  It's working. 

Now boys and girls I have a big shock for you, please sit down.  Reality TV isn't really off the cuff, it's scripted just like any other show.  Ditto here.  

This isn't to take anything away from what they are doing.  Bad Obsession is literally the only YT channel I subscribe to that I watch every single video when and as they release it.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

Over on the serious business side of the internet, they are already talking about buying 10 subframes/axles, figuring out which is stiffest, installing it, then rechecking the stiffness after every race.  If that series was happening here, someone would have already found a repair bulletin for a specific type of rear end accident that happens to increase the stiffness of the axle.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Those rules are from September 1.  I believe the first race was on the weekend of August 1-2.  I wonder if they changed those rules in preparation for the September event.

adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:

They were only 1.7 seconds off the fast guys pace in qualifying and 1 second off his fast lap during the race. He states going into the qualy session that it was his first time driving this track and this looks like a track that in a low horsepower car it wouldn't be hard to give up a second or two to a more experienced driver. Add to that no testing time with the car and leaving legal mods on the table like the rear camber and it is not hard to see why they are slightly off the pace to the leader.

They are also running with other faster groups on track which he mentions seem to slow him in the braking zones and corners, I'd imagine running as their own group on track (like they will in 2021) will make a big difference to how the field stays together. Lots of drafting down the straights and no out of class cars coming through breaking them up.

I think the lap timer/data log system is the best improvement they made in this episode, if I had that sitting on the shelf I would be throwing it in the car too or coming up with a solution to that.

I believe it was also mentioned that that particular driver was especially experienced at THAT track in small/low power cars. Race 2 results are out there if you wanted to ruin the surprise: https://brscc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/203731cst.pdf

There's actually a race broadcast as well (mostly follows the top classes in that run group but still cool)
Race 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuDcYPBmtAw

Race 2: https://youtu.be/iMEP6h_ovkE

ojannen said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Those rules are from September 1.  I believe the first race was on the weekend of August 1-2.  I wonder if they changed those rules in preparation for the September event.

It's also a screenshot from this latest episode.  I'm showing what they were showing what the rules are.

steronz said:

Yeah they lost me with this last episode. Taking a series explicitly designed to be accessible to people without a lot of money and throwing in parts that most people couldn't make or afford to have made, plus an expensive data logger... Ugh. Seems rude. 

These are things that would show up in lemons or champcar.  I would say a large portion of champcar teams are running a similar or MUCH nicer dash / data logger.

In other words, even extremely budget oriented series do the same stuff.

ojannen said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

Over on the serious business side of the internet, they are already talking about buying 10 subframes/axles, figuring out which is stiffest, installing it, then rechecking the stiffness after every race.  If that series was happening here, someone would have already found a repair bulletin for a specific type of rear end accident that happens to increase the stiffness of the axle.

That's just blueprinting. People who don't do it think it's cheating, people who do it are just taking some of the randomness out of the production process. I wonder if there was a running change in the welding on the subframes over time? 

Spec Miatas run with "accident damage" to the front upper control arms pretty much constantly, if I understand correctly. This is optimization :)

I am enjoying this series. I think rally shops are good at race car prep because they expect damage and thus surviveability and servicability is a higher priority.

Keith Tanner said:

I am enjoying this series. I think rally shops are good at race car prep because they expect damage and thus surviveability and servicability is a higher priority.

AMEN to that!

I mean the guy who placed in first could have a brand new engine in the car.  Wasnt there an issue, last year maybe, where like 8 cars out of the top 10 of a spec miata race were DQ'ed for too much intake work being done on the engine?

In reply to MrChaos :

2014 yes. Plunge Gate 
Nine Cars sucessfully protested and ..7th place? Was listed as the winner.
Basically that was a combo of engine builders being on the rules advisory committee, and liberal interpretations of "Blending" vs "breaking the edge" where they allowed some cuts to be made in the head to account for core shift and a "common understanding" of the practice.

Keith Tanner said:

ojannen said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

Over on the serious business side of the internet, they are already talking about buying 10 subframes/axles, figuring out which is stiffest, installing it, then rechecking the stiffness after every race.  If that series was happening here, someone would have already found a repair bulletin for a specific type of rear end accident that happens to increase the stiffness of the axle.

That's just blueprinting. People who don't do it think it's cheating, people who do it are just taking some of the randomness out of the production process. I wonder if there was a running change in the welding on the subframes over time? 

Spec Miatas run with "accident damage" to the front upper control arms pretty much constantly, if I understand correctly. This is optimization :)

I am enjoying this series. I think rally shops are good at race car prep because they expect damage and thus surviveability and servicability is a higher priority.

Way back in the olden days when the Archer brothers were running a showroom stock Corvette, they bought rocker arms in batches of hundreds to find the sixteen that were built just exactly wrong.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I have heard tell of cars being pulled off the assembly line, seam-welded, then stuck back on the line, so the work was hidden under all the assembly-line paint and undercoating.

I have also heard tell of "crash damaged" strut towers pushed inwards for a bit extra negative camber.  Or solid axles (RWD) that in no way, shape, or form had zero camber.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

A former boss worked at VW Westmoreland back in the Showroom Stock Rabbit days. According to him, the race car shells went down the robotic welding line twice, the second pass was an inch or two out of whack.