BMW/euro guys, wheel stud thoughts

I'm going to be replacing both hubs/wheel bearings in the front soon, and I'm thinking about doing a stud conversion while I'm at it. Thoughts on the pros/cons?

Do it. Wheel bolts are a (minor) PITA if you mess with them much

Your call.. I have never had a problem with wheel studs.. and almost all my cars have had them

no question do it. There are no cons, just pros. Best source is http://motorsporthardware.com/

Seriously. Putting the 18's on my 740 made me question the sanity of Bavarian engineers.

That or the legal strength of their beer.

Ok so stud conversion it is then

If you change wheels/tires often go with bullnose ones as it makes starting the nuts with a cordless drill as easy as pie. Also, buy one extra set. For the day someone forgets to tighten up before a run and you break off 4 of them.

I also prefer to run aluminum lug nuts because first of all, they are a crap load lighter than stock and rotating weight matters even if just a little. Second - your idiot friend who helps you crew can't break a $10 bullnose stud by over-tightening them with a 250 ft/lb cordless impact. Just keep extra lug nuts in the toolbox.

Studs are purported to require replacing. A lot of racers change them every season but I attribute that to fear and improper torque with steel nuts fatiguing them. I have the same studs in my mod race car as the day it got it's logbook in 2010 and it sees ridiculous corner loads and lots of heat. No issues. Aluminum lug nuts! You can't stretch the bolts... only strip the lugs.

Get spares and take them to the track. Every other time I go, I pick up somebody else's busted stud in the paddock. Usually with a nut still on it. Sometimes the nut is my size, and it joins my spares.

Even when I'm not using studs on a car (for example, so I don't need to explain it to the dealer while I'm in warranty), I keep one in my impact wrench box to use for lining up the bolt holes.

Aluminum lug nuts are for "tuner" cars ;)

But I would never put a set on any car I own, especially cars I drive on a track. They are not as strong a steel and since I use a torque wrench to tighten and or check the lug nuts, I know I'm not going to break a stud.

The guy with the big impact doesn't realize he stripped your aluminum lug nuts and you head out of the pits. Good luck!

I'll agree on the bullnose studs, but would never use aluminum nuts. The rotational mass that close to the center of the wheel is pretty much negligible, and I've seen several strip out. I've never broken my MH bullnose studs, and this is on a rallycross car that gets constant wheel changes.

And nobody who touches our enduro race car in the pits will be putting lugnuts on at full impact. .I think we still have all the original MH studs on that car as well.

Yeah, go straight for Magnesium like Porsche does

Studs are great until the first time a stud comes out with the lug nut, then doesn't go back in, instead threading the lug nut on deeper.

I've never had a problem with aluminum lug nuts. If put on properly there is absolutely no reason for failure.

Knurled wrote: Yeah, go straight for Magnesium like Porsche does Studs are great until the first time a stud comes out with the lug nut, then doesn't go back in, instead threading the lug nut on deeper.

that's why you put threadlock red on the studs and don't let your E36 M3 get all rusty, lol. I carry a couple spares, but have never had to use one in 4 seasons of racing and the car sitting out in the weather. The MH studs aren't the least bit rusty, to boot.

I think any stud problems are from people buying low-quality studs or somthing, IDK. I haven't replaced a stud on any of my cars in about 300k miles, including ~40 rallycrosses and enduro races.

Anyone have any experience with the ecs kit? Or the h&r kit?

Yeah... my "tuner" cars have logbooks. I've used aluminum nuts on my race cars for well over a decade. That's 30-60 days a year, open track, instructing, endurance races, 4-7 sprint race weekends... and never a problem. Maybe those tuners are copying me

I'm 100% going to put studs on Ugly. Why the Germans think wheel bolts are a good idea is a mystery to me. Even my old German Ford (see avatar) had bolts.

My only question is how long I need them to be. I guess that depends on which wheels I end up with.

I've read that it's because it's harder, or impossible (so they say) to measure how far wheel studs are torqued down compared to lug nuts and studs for motorsports. I used a cheap conversion kit. It's a subtle mod if you use shorter studs.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: If you change wheels/tires often go with bullnose ones as it makes starting the nuts with a cordless drill as easy as pie. Also, buy one extra set. For the day someone forgets to tighten up before a run and you break off 4 of them. I also prefer to run aluminum lug nuts because first of all, they are a crap load lighter than stock and rotating weight matters even if just a little. Second - your idiot friend who helps you crew can't break a $10 bullnose stud by over-tightening them with a 250 ft/lb cordless impact. Just keep extra lug nuts in the toolbox. Studs are purported to require replacing. A lot of racers change them every season but I attribute that to fear and improper torque with steel nuts fatiguing them. I have the same studs in my mod race car as the day it got it's logbook in 2010 and it sees ridiculous corner loads and lots of heat. No issues. Aluminum lug nuts! You can't stretch the bolts... only strip the lugs.

if you go with the aluminum nuts, be prepared to re-torque after (before) each run … dissimilar metals and all that

I ran with them for a while, and nearly lost a wheel before I understood the need

and didn't GRM run a tire/wheel test that ended up debunking (for the most part) the light wheel v. a heaver wheel … which would be much more weight difference than lug nuts

bumping this for additional feedback.

I'm putting a set of 14" BBS RA's on my mk2 VW Golf, and since they were not a set of the OE VW option wheels (these came maybe from a BMW??) the wheel is "thicker" than the stock alloys, so the lugbolts don't stick out far enough.

Since I have to source longer ball seat lugbolts anyways, I'm considering just installing some longer bullnose studs, so it won't matter which wheels are bolted on, and running open ball seat lugnuts.

What threw me off at first was that places like ECS sell stud conversion kits but then have a disclaimer like *not recommended for track/autocross use.

Using the link earlier in this thread, I found a clearance package at: http://motorsporthardware.com/product/clearance-78mm-black-bullet-nose-stud-kit-12x1-5/

that would work fine for my car (M12, 1.5pitch). That said, at 78mm they're definitely longer than I need. But for a trackday car, it seems silly to pay more money to get a shorter set, and that would make it easy to add spacers if I wanted to.

I figured a set of thread in studs with something like red loctite should be plenty safe on track right?

On the other hand, I can just buy a set of lugbolts at the right length brand new for almost half that price.

Overthinking things as usual.

Best mod I ever did to the M3. berkeley bolts. Buy good studs, carry 1-2 extras just in case Murphy strikes, and loctite the everloving piss out of them. I've got 20+ track days and several autocrosses on mine, and have never once had an issue.

Bullnose studs are highly recommended too. It's just one less worry to have to deal with potentially crossing a thread over at the end of the bolt during a hasty wheel assembly.

The VW has bolts and since it gets the wheels changed once every couple of years I haven't messed with them, just despise them every time I have to do it.

The Miata had factory studs that were just really short (especially when trying to tune in an exact fit with spacers) so last winter it got extended, bullnose studs and aluminum nuts. No problems with them at all.

This guy lives less than a mile from me. I don't know him but I've seen the name on his tow vehicle and he tracks an E36.

http://glstopstud.com/site/961fe098eb9041ceaf59a615acabcd17/default?url=http%3A%2F%2Fglstopstud.com%2FProduct_Information.php#3212Top Stud

e46potenza wrote: I'm going to be replacing both hubs/wheel bearings in the front soon, and I'm thinking about doing a stud conversion while I'm at it. Thoughts on the pros/cons?

Just did mine on the e46 last week. Wheel bolts are the dumbest thing ever. Once you get used to wheel bolts and switch back to studs, it's such a relief.

BTW...If you need long studs, I have some new 92MM studs and lugs for BMW that I would part with exceedingly cheap.

Another person in the "I've never had a problem with aluminum lug nuts" on a track vehicle.

They never lost their torque either after 20 minute sessions, or when I shared the car with a buddy and the car was getting back-to-back 20 minute sessions.

His race car doesn't have a problem with it either. And he does WRL.

Am I doing something wrong? I've never had very much difficulty with wheel bolts and when I was doing roadside assistance I'd have to do several flats a week.