buying hubs with no bolt pattern

In my quest to move onto lighter wheels in a size I want Ive began to wonder if I could find a way to buy "blank" hubs.  Im looking at wheel options in 15" for my neon.  The 5x100 pattern it currently uses has made it difficult for me to find anything in a 15x8 or 9.  I have access to CNCs and manual bridgeports so drilling isnt an issue for me.  However sourcing hubs as I want to buy them is.  Welding and filling isnt really something id like to do.  

Anyone else try this? Ive tried contacting modern performance to see if they could help.  No luck there.  Any opinions, or other options I havent thought about are appreciated.

Diamond Racing makes pretty much any size /bolt pattern /back spacing wheel you want, right? 

they do, but Id really prefer a lighter option than that.

If you have access to machines then why don't you just make your own? You could pattern them off of some other hub.

First gen Neon hubs are a pretty fragile thing at the best of times.  I've proven Chryslers recommendation of replacing Mopar Performance hubs every twelve track hours by breaking them around the 17 hour mark if I get behind in my maintenance.

So, having said that, I would search out something with the Neon spline and bolt pattern you want, and move on from there.  Or, I would consider updating to second gen hubs and redrilling, or there is a backdate to something with a bolt in  bearing assembly that is sturdier as well.  Daytona?  Omni?  Dunno.  Anyway- if you backdate the knuckles, maybe you can find a hub assembly that would function.  At some point, there will be some fabrication.  I know the Chrysler stuff shares certain common splines and sizes, but its a big old zoo to figure it all out.

Or, you find an early, low option Neon with 4 x 100 hubs, and change them every three or four track hours.  (I think this might be a very bad idea.)

If you change to a more common 5 bolt pattern, I wouldn't be too scared about redrilling.  The hubs fail at the connection of the wheel face to the body of the hub anyway, so probably no loss of strength.  4 bolt would make this idea bad.

In reply to freetors :

The problem with making my own is id have to outsource getting the spline put in, which could get really pricey.  

79rex said:

In reply to freetors :

The problem with making my own is id have to outsource getting the spline put in, which could get really pricey.  

You are totally correct. I completely forgot about the spliney bits.

The hubs are full circles, right?  So use the equipment you have to make your new bolt circle halfway between the old ones.  No harm in having 2 patterns in the hub

There's a chance the hub from another car will fit- Honda, Mazda. I've made my own hubs and had other machine parts broached with a spline and the cost was nominal.

neons are 5x100 becaue it allows thehub face to be smaller so the inner brake rotor diameter can be smaller.  Going to a different bolt pattern would mean larger hubs and different brakes, probably.

I am shocked that wheels aren't available.  This was Subaru's standard bolt pattern for a decade or more, as well as others.

Knurled. said:

neons are 5x100 becaue it allows thehub face to be smaller so the inner brake rotor diameter can be smaller.  Going to a different bolt pattern would mean larger hubs and different brakes, probably.

 

I am shocked that wheels aren't available.  This was Subaru's standard bolt pattern for a decade or more, as well as others.

Many Japanese cars use a 4 x 100 pattern. Hub face should be close to the same size.

ChasH said:

Knurled. said:

neons are 5x100 becaue it allows thehub face to be smaller so the inner brake rotor diameter can be smaller.  Going to a different bolt pattern would mean larger hubs and different brakes, probably.

 

I am shocked that wheels aren't available.  This was Subaru's standard bolt pattern for a decade or more, as well as others.

Many Japanese cars use a 4 x 100 pattern. Hub face should be close to the same size.

Didn't base model Neons come 4x100?

In reply to Knurled. :

Yes. I would think the 4 and 5 bolt hubs are interchangeable, at least on the first generation Neon.

In reply to Knurled. :

Acr Mopar performance hubs are good for 12 hours...the 4 bolt ones should last about three.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Don't they use the same bearing?

It's been forever since I've worked on a Neon, to be fair.

In reply to Knurled. :

Bearings are fine.  The hubs break.  I have quite a collection, myself.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Oh.  That's.... discouraging.

In reply to Knurled. :

wheels seem to be available, but not in the 15" dia.  I really enjoy the lower tire cost of the 15s, and I really dont want to start adding more dia to create more rubbing issues.  I want to end up with 4x100 to use the honda/miata market which is heavily supported.  

They did make neons in 4x100, but they would never last long, and pretty much be dangerous to try to run on for real track time. 

In reply to ChasH :

curious what you used for material.  Are they made out of basic steel? 

79rex said:

In reply to ChasH :

curious what you used for material.  Are they made out of basic steel? 

My machine shop had material left over from an ongoing contract with a gear cutting shop. They had cutoffs/scrap of 1045 steel, stress relieved and resulfurized and heat treated to C38. It was lovely stuff.  Some drive plates they made for me I had splined and induction hardened by a shop doing NASCAR work. That's one place to look for your needs as they have everything in house and are accustomed to small runs.

Just to add this in , there is an app called CNC bolt center that looks like it gives you Gcode to machine the holes

In reply to californiamilleghia

Initially I wanted to just add the pattern to my current hubs.  but there just isnt enough room to add a 4 lug pattern with a 5 lug. 

79rex said:

They did make neons in 4x100, but they would never last long, and pretty much be dangerous to try to run on for real track time. 

Not sure how 4x100 would come into play, there are 5.0 Mustangs running single digit ETs on 4x114.  

93gsxturbo said:

79rex said:

They did make neons in 4x100, but they would never last long, and pretty much be dangerous to try to run on for real track time. 

Not sure how 4x100 would come into play, there are 5.0 Mustangs running single digit ETs on 4x114.  

No, no there are not.

For one thing, Mustangs didn't have "hubs" the way a Neon does.  Now that I understand what the problem is: It isn't the bearings that are failing, it is the hub face separating from the spline/bearing journal (journal? shoulder?) due to heavy cornering side loads, which puts a cyclic load on that area, and cyclic loads are the ones that hurt you.  (Makes me wonder how much a pain it'd be to try to swap in NS uprights)

For two, Mustangs never were "4x114".  There were a couple years with a 4.5" pattern (might have been 4"?) in the very early models in '65-66, but the Fox bodies were 4x4.25, or if you want to hammer that into metric, 4x108.  Not that it matters at all, because they didn't use FWD hubs, they used semifloating axles in the rear and cast iron hub/rotor assemblies in the front, which is ironically a stronger setup than a separate hub and rotor.  (Ironic because that is the only nice thing you can say about it, from several perspectives)  And anyway, we're discussing side loadings, not a straight line dyno pull which is basically the LEAST stressful form of motorsports ever devised.