CAM CHOICE.

In reply to Knurled. :

They don't care. They just want that sound.

 I used to try and talk my customers out of more cam than they need but if what they want is a rough idle then I'll give it to them. If that's what they're buying it for then I will accommodate them even though I disagree with it.

There are a bunch of videos of my cams on YouTube. Every single one of them is showing off the rough idle.

But, but, but, but.... that's the music of my people!

Hit cruise night and find the gnarliest idling cam.

Guys still carry their cam cards in their wallet, right?

Bonus points for gear drive whine.

Suprf1y said:

In reply to Knurled. :

They don't care. They just want that sound.

 I used to try and talk my customers out of more cam than they need but if what they want is a rough idle then I'll give it to them. If that's what they're buying it for then I will accommodate them even though I disagree with it.

There are a bunch of videos of my cams on YouTube. Every single one of them is showing off the rough idle.

My impala sounds incredible, but it was more fun around town with the stock cam 330hp 5.3 than the insanely huge lopey cam 400hp ls1.  But you don’t turn down the price i paid for the ls1.  I’m going to put it in something 1000 pounds lighter 

Ian F said:

In reply to Knurled. :

It seems modern cat-back exhausts do a pretty good job of emulating that lopey-cam idle sound with an otherwise bone-stock EFI V8. 

There is no way on Earth that you can emulate the sound of a hot cam with a stock engine with an exhaust system.  At all.  

The only thing exhaust systems do for stock engines is make them louder.

fasted58 said:

Hit cruise night and find the gnarliest idling cam.

Guys still carry their cam cards in their wallet, right?

Bonus points for gear drive whine.

Or gear drive + blower...

SkinnyG said:

But, but, but, but.... that's the music of my people!

Yes.

Yes it is.

Also , the music of my people (I have dual citizenship):

Note that he revs the engine a bunch.  This is one of those compromises I was talking about...  you have to run colder plugs on a high output engine so they don't miss at high RPM/load at best, or melt the electrodes at worst (done that one...).  But combine cold plugs with an engine that is, literally, misfiring half the time, and this is a recipe for plug fouling, so you have to clear them out on a regular basis.  Mazda actually used to have a spec for spark plug replacement as a function of idle time.  I think it was 5 minutes of idling combined and the plugs needed to be changed.  This was in the 1970s, plugs and ignition systems have gotten better, but the point is clear.

had to resubmit my request to Comp. I'm guessing the holiday week screwed that one up. We'll see.

Knurled. said:

Ian F said:

In reply to Knurled. :

It seems modern cat-back exhausts do a pretty good job of emulating that lopey-cam idle sound with an otherwise bone-stock EFI V8. 

There is no way on Earth that you can emulate the sound of a hot cam with a stock engine with an exhaust system.  At all.  

 

The only thing exhaust systems do for stock engines is make them louder.

Normally I'd agree with you. It's impossible.  But my ears say otherwise.  Maybe not a "pure" lopey-cam idle, but close enough for govt work. 

It seems like every damn gas-V8 pick-up within a mile of me has an exhaust system of some sort, so I get to hear a wide variety. And I know damn well none of these guys would put the effort into a cam change.

something you didn't say was the head mfg. 200 cc port is huge for a mild 350, the carb choice helps some here, but be careful you could end up with a soft bottom end but want to run in an rpm range you might want to avoid. aka gas money.

In reply to GTXVette :

I'm already averaging 10-11mpg DD and 9 auto-x'ing. So I am not sure I could get much worse for fuel economy. The heads are linked here somewhere in this thread. They are some cheaper knock offs from Skip White in Tennessee. 

bobzilla said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Look up a few posts where I describe it's use. I've got a 40 year old engine that doesn't make enough power to keep the rear tires lit on an ass light truck with 4.10s and a manual trans. The 88 C4 made 250-ish hp and 350+ tq everywhere. It was a hoot, but I want something that will rev better. 

These are the heads I went with.Price was right, came in looking better than I expected a set of new $700 heads should look. I wanted more head than I needed so I have room to grow when I get bored. 

HERE IT IS

yea I remembered the 4:10's after I posted. there is a .025 steel head gasket that helps a little with comp. most are .045-65 thick. use LOTS of copper coat.

Ian F said:

 

It seems like every damn gas-V8 pick-up within a mile of me has an exhaust system of some sort, so I get to hear a wide variety. And I know damn well none of these guys would put the effort into a cam change.

THIS.  Every time I hear a decent -sounding exhaust going past my house I spin my head and it's just some bro in a mid-2000's domestic truck.  

Except for the one guy with a Model A rod.  And the early-60's Impala.  But everyone else can suck big blue donkey balls.  

Ian F said:

Knurled. said:

Ian F said:

In reply to Knurled. :

It seems modern cat-back exhausts do a pretty good job of emulating that lopey-cam idle sound with an otherwise bone-stock EFI V8. 

There is no way on Earth that you can emulate the sound of a hot cam with a stock engine with an exhaust system.  At all.  

 

The only thing exhaust systems do for stock engines is make them louder.

Normally I'd agree with you. It's impossible.  But my ears say otherwise.  Maybe not a "pure" lopey-cam idle, but close enough for govt work. 

It seems like every damn gas-V8 pick-up within a mile of me has an exhaust system of some sort, so I get to hear a wide variety. And I know damn well none of these guys would put the effort into a cam change.

No.  Just... no.

There is no way that an exhaust will make an engine misfire.  That is what the "big cam" sound is: rhythmic misfire.

volvoclearinghouse said:

Ian F said:

 

It seems like every damn gas-V8 pick-up within a mile of me has an exhaust system of some sort, so I get to hear a wide variety. And I know damn well none of these guys would put the effort into a cam change.

THIS.  Every time I hear a decent -sounding exhaust going past my house I spin my head and it's just some bro in a mid-2000's domestic truck.  

Except for the one guy with a Model A rod.  And the early-60's Impala.  But everyone else can suck big blue donkey balls.  

Heh.  I work near a Maserati dealership.  Every time some toolbag blasts up the road on a test drive, I think it's some meathead in a stock Mustang with Flowmasters.  Real hollow sound.

A nice, decently sized engine with a good cam, will sound like an industrial dryer with a bowling ball in it, to borrow a phrase from a C&D article on street racing.  To get this, you need something with a minimum of 540 cubic inches displacement and a cam that idles at about 5 inches of vacuum at 1000rpm.  That's the sound that evokes awe at the cruise-ins.

My favorite was what I call "the SS396".  The car had 396 badges.  The engine, however, actually displaced 604ci.  That's more displacement per cylinder than some Focus's entire engines.  The damn thing sounded like a train engine, heavily intoxicated.  Very deep and stumbly.  I drove it, briefly....

Comps recommendation is in. Who guessed 08-433-8?

that seems pretty big, but maybe not so bad with a manual?

Big?  It's only a 236/246 on a wide lobe separation, and it's pretty low lift.  Did a double take because even flat tappet cams tend to have more lift that that for the duration.  Should drive great and be easy on the valvetrain so you won't constantly be wrenching on it.

Easy on the valvetrain, but that's a good chunk of duration and not all that much lift unless you run it with higher ratio rockers.  Probably not what I'd pick.  I'd aim for a little shorter duration, faster lift rates and more peak lift personally.  

Knurled. said:

 

There is no way that an exhaust will make an engine misfire.  That is what the "big cam" sound is: rhythmic misfire.

There's the difference. You give a sh1t more than I do.  I just hear a V8 with an exhaust.   I know enough to tell the difference when I need to (at a race track), but in the context of a car show or cruise night, they all pretty much sound the same.

Knurled. said:

Big?  It's only a 236/246 on a wide lobe separation, and it's pretty low lift.  Did a double take because even flat tappet cams tend to have more lift that that for the duration.  Should drive great and be easy on the valvetrain so you won't constantly be wrenching on it.

but it's a roller, so it's probably a pretty fast ramp I'd guess, so while it's "only" a .510 lift, it's probably spending more time there is my guess. 

Nailed it

It's the 4.10 gear that was the factor in that recommendation.  It will pull like a bear in the midrange.

Those numbers are almost identical to the (flat tappet hydraulic) cams I used to run on the street and in our limited late model stock cars in the early 80's

.510 lift in a truck application sounds like plenty of lift to me...

In reply to Suprf1y :

And since it is a roller, you don't have to gnaw your fingers on the first start, thinking about wiping a lobe...