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Taiden
Taiden Reader
5/23/11 12:47 p.m.

Every volvo i've ever driven feels like a partially inspiring boat. With the typical freshened up bushings/jiggly bits, sway bars, springs and struts... would one find a rwd volvo wagon to be inspiring to throw around corners? Or is this a lost cause?

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
5/23/11 12:57 p.m.

You can do the "cambermod" which involves rotating the strut inwards and drilling a new hole in the hat to match, that helps. IPD is your source.

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/23/11 1:02 p.m.

Not a ton of experience, but within that limited realm, I've found the 740 way more modern and crisp feeling than the 240.

I've driven a few 240s (parents and sister have had them) but only drove a 740 while helping sis car-shop.

Am I a victim of a small sample size? I too would love to love the Volvos a bit better than I do...

Graefin10
Graefin10 Reader
5/23/11 1:05 p.m.

Somewhere on this site is a picture of a Volvo wagon in race trim. I have seen many Volvos over the years that are modified to handle great and run will in the intended series. So yes, with the proper mods. they can handle very well.

procainestart
procainestart Dork
5/23/11 1:06 p.m.

Post your question to www.turbobricks.com or search their site. Dunno how awesome you can make the car handle, but there's sure to be some good ideas there. I agree, though, that, having extensively driven both 240s and 740s, they are pretty dull cars in stock form, even with sticks.

motomoron
motomoron HalfDork
5/23/11 2:52 p.m.

There's a DC area guy who campaigned a crazy uber-turbo'd 245DL in SCCA SM autocross. I believe he won the region one or more years. See:

Crazy 245DL!

ProDarwin
ProDarwin Dork
5/23/11 2:58 p.m.
motomoron wrote: There's a DC area guy who campaigned a crazy uber-turbo'd 245DL in SCCA SM autocross. I believe he won the region one or more years. See: Crazy 245DL!

Yup. All it takes is 315-335mm hoosiers!

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand Reader
5/23/11 3:14 p.m.

These answers are all slightly afield from the OP's question (and my own curiosity), I think.

Sure, you can wedge huge tires under it, stiffen it up, and boost the crud out of it and it'll be fast.

But can they be made to handle nicely? As in be responsive, precise, agile, go where you want them to go without undue flailing?

The 240s I've driven just feel generally soft and sloppy, but they've mostly been stock, old, on uninspiring tires, etc... The 740 I drove felt markedly better, I thought, though I really didn't get to drive it enough to develop a complete impression.

Cone_Junky
Cone_Junky HalfDork
5/23/11 3:25 p.m.

Before I got nto Auto-X/Track days I had a 745T. Bilstein dampners, IPD springs, and IPD sway bars made it handle well. I doubt it would beat a similiarly modified smaller car, but it was a wagon and mechanically bullet proof.

motomoron
motomoron HalfDork
5/23/11 3:35 p.m.

Ok - shoot the messenger. Ack! I'm PWNED.

From a car development standpoint nearly anything can be made to handle dependent on your budget and time. The Volvo wagons weren't terribly heavy despite their volume, so, to paraphrase Bill Murray in Caddyshack - "It's got that going for it'.

IPD sells stuff, Koni, Bilstein sell stuff. Standard formula here. Take not terribly heavy car - add a bit of spring and roll stiffness. Replace shagged 25 year old rubber bushings with new or urethane. Buy decent tires and widen the contact patches. Add chassis stiffness if necessary.

Same drill as about any other car. Truth told though, for what you'll have spent you might could have bought a V70R. Those things crank my tractor.

motomoron
motomoron HalfDork
5/23/11 3:38 p.m.

Aww, sheee-1t! I should just buy this one!

V70R!

Taiden
Taiden Reader
5/23/11 4:27 p.m.
motomoron wrote: Aww, sheee-1t! I should just buy this one! V70R!

boi-oi-oi-oi-oing!!

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/23/11 4:54 p.m.

In reply to motomoron:

Its even that awesome orange color

EvanR
EvanR Reader
5/23/11 5:18 p.m.
motomoron wrote: Replace shagged 25 year old rubber bushings with new or urethane.

+1 bazillion

Any 240 on fresh bushings (and including strut top bushings) will handle pretty much like a slot car. People drive un-maintained 240s and think they handle like crap. Good ones don't.

After every bushing is replaced, then do Bilstein HD, sway bars from ipd or a 242 or 244 Turbo (The Turbo wagons had a thinner rear bar), and chassis bracing.

THEN tell me a 240 handles like mush. I dare you.

m4ff3w
m4ff3w GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/23/11 5:23 p.m.

I loved the way my 745ti handled.

IPD big anti-roll bar up front, konis all around, camber plates up front, and AFCO springs - 325# front and 275# rear.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
5/23/11 5:23 p.m.
motomoron wrote: Aww, sheee-1t! I should just buy this one! V70R!

Is it the later ones that make 300hp, then?

Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog Dork
5/23/11 5:42 p.m.

My 89 745t handled way better than it had a right to. IPD springs and sways, Bilstiens, upper and lower strut braces, sticky +zero tires, urethane bushings and all new suspension components. If you're on a budget with a 7xx/9xx then cut HD springs, an early 960 front sway (24mm vs. IPD 25mm), a sedan rear bar and brackets (wagons had none), and good tires on stock 16" wheels will get you a nice upgrade for cheap. Also 93+ front brakes are a junkyard upgrade that takes care of the warping problems those cars had. I've never built a 240, so you'll have to try turbobricks for that.

dculberson
dculberson HalfDork
5/24/11 10:15 a.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Is it the later ones that make 300hp, then?

Correct. Plus the early V70r's aren't available with a manual transmission. They can be rather easily hopped up to 300hp, but starting with a $5500 car then doing mods might be a budget strainer.

turboswede
turboswede GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/24/11 11:15 a.m.

There's one that run's in the local ChumpCar race that does quite well. Its completely dropped in the weeds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeSyqkKpUq8

I think it is also running pretty damned high compression and 4-piston brakes (all legal as they bought the brakes under the 2x rule and did the machine work themselves)

They also had a pretty damned good team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASInB6KBT_A

HiTempguy
HiTempguy Dork
5/24/11 2:02 p.m.
turboswede wrote: I think it is also running pretty damned high compression and 4-piston brakes (all legal as they bought the brakes under the 2x rule and did the machine work themselves)

I think that GRM did a recent handling article on FWD VW handling theory. Basically, it handled AMAZING while slammed, but couldn't tolerate bumps. If you have extremely little suspension movement, slammed does help.

As for the hi-comp, Canadian 240's had a 140hp hi-comp motor that you guys never got. Shave a little bit more off the head, put in a gnarly cam, and you have a rwd car that isn't too heavy with 160+hp.

Greg Voth
Greg Voth HalfDork
5/24/11 2:47 p.m.

I can't keep mine from oversteering. It may be the 5.0 and a heavy foot or it could be the IPD front and rear swap Bilstein HD's but stock springs.

The answer probably lies in my habit of driving all my cars (at least the RWD ones) like this.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
5/24/11 2:49 p.m.

Dang. Those are nice pictures, Greg.

Greg Voth
Greg Voth HalfDork
5/24/11 2:51 p.m.

Opps.

Credit to Tom Heath for the top two and DirtyBird for the bottom one.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
5/24/11 4:20 p.m.

I'm just teasing; I'm not especially proud of those.

But you do make a good point. There's no amount of understeer that can't be solved by torque and a heavy right foot...

foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
5/25/11 8:07 a.m.

Be carefull not to confuse handling with nimbleness.

A car designed to cruise at 100+mph can have excellent handling characteristics under those conditions, but not be nimble in a parking lot around cones at all.

Similar a vehicle designed to carry a heavy load. It can handle well compared to everything else loaded the same way, but be an absolute pig when empty.

And of course the autocross racer is fantastic at 40 mph and under, but total squirrelbait as you aproach 100 mph. Toe out is a wonderful thing for zipping around cones, but not for tracking straight at high speeds.

Its all relative.

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