Adrian_Thompson wrote:
Feedyurhed wrote:
In two years Ford will be discounting them to even move them. The car world moves so very fast that in 2 years there will be five others cars that will be quicker, cooler, newer, cheaper, more tech stuff etc. Everybody wants and has to have the latest and greatest. This is a really thin segment. Most people don't/won't spend $35K-$40K on a Golf, Impreza, Civic or Focus. It's just not a volume segment. Don't get me wrong, I personally really like the RS but when you near or break the $40K mark it's going to change some minds. It's such a shame about the dealer gouging though. Too bad we couldn't cut those bloated bastards out all together and just order on line. Oh geeeez, don't get me started again!
The part of me that wants one hopes you're right. The part of me that remembers my paycheck comes from Ford hopes you're wrong, at least as far as having to discount them goes. berkeley the greedy closed shop dealers in the goat ass. Closed shop or free market pricing, not both.
I know after a couple of years GT500's were available below sticker, I hope the same is true here.
I'm not sure about your new hotness driving down prices theory goes though. First of all, sit down for this, they are not that expensive. Don't forget the average new car transaction is already over $35K, so the base price of the RS is basically at the new car average. Also, let's look at the super hot AWD market. Over the last 20 years you've had the (not available here) Escort Cosworth, the STi, R32, Evo and possibly a couple of Audi's. Older things like the Mazda GTR, Nissan GTR etc were never really in this league. There hasn't been much turnover or new additions to the market place until the RS arrived
Ya I basically agree with you. Like I said previously, I really really like the RS and would consider getting one........and I am a staunch Subaru guy. I currently have a 2015 WRX which is basically 80-90% an STi for $10K less. C%D posted a 0-60 time of 4.8 seconds on one test. I think the Focus ST is mostly the same thing. Some less performance for a lot less money. That's all I am saying. If you want the top performer with all the bells and whistles the RS and STi are the way to go. If it's a daily driver and you have a family and a budget etc., to save $10K and still have a very capable car it's a tougher decision. There is no way I would ever pay $5K-$10K dealer mark up any vehicle. Damn, that RS is nice though.
In reply to Feedyurhed:
$10K more up front but probably $10K more on the back end when you sell. Granted if you don't have an extra $10K to tie up then it's a big deal... But it's not like that $10K evaporates.
WRX vs STi is a tough call because they are both AWD and the STi is long in the tooth. But I wouldn't call the FWD ST 90% of an AWD RS. Especially if you are going to tune the RS or R. AWD really helps get the power down in non-ideal conditions. I'm not sure I'd want 350+ HP FWD.
jv8 wrote:
In reply to Feedyurhed:
$10K more up front but probably $10K more on the back end when you sell. Granted if you don't have an extra $10K to tie up then it's a big deal... But it's not like that $10K evaporates.
WRX vs STi is a tough call because they are both AWD and the STi is long in the tooth. But I wouldn't call the FWD ST 90% of an AWD RS. Especially if you are going to tune the RS or R. AWD really helps get the power down in non-ideal conditions. I'm not sure I'd want 350+ HP FWD.
Completely agree. The WRX/STi comparison is far closer than a ST and RS. AWD versus FWD...........big difference. Same thing with the R or a GTi or a Hellcat and a SRT8 Challenger or............well you get the idea. If you want/need the top performer and can afford it, go for it. Will the average person on the street suffer with the next level down...........probably not.
I'd like to see the same test 5 years from now with the same exact cars. Which one will have a blown engine? Which one will have a CEL on with electrical gremlins? This might be were the Fords wins.
To those who use MSRP to benchmark value: what offers a better value, a new RS at MSRP or the same money into an entry-lux crossover at invoice? Fast forward 10 years and the crossover is sitting on a used lot in a sea of identical vehicles.
Yes, maybe in a year or two RS's will be languishing on dealer lots at $500 under invoice. Or maybe they will be the common-man version of the limited-run Ford GT. Maybe they will be like manual trans CTS-V wagons and get cancelled only to become unicorns. Place your bets.
Here is the nut of it... the RS is a cool car. But they have taken an econo car and put it in the price bracket of much nicer cars without doing anything about the cheapness of the interior.
When people say it's because they would of had to make it a $60k car to do that I can call BS by pointing to the Golf R. It's a little tuning away from beating the RS outright and it is so much nicer inside that it plays upmarket from it's price tag. If I was buying today, I'd buy the Golf. I'm not buying today because VW does not want to sell me one the way I want it and instead want me to take whatever they have or can find on another lot... and I guess demand is strong enough for them to ignore me for the time being.
These cars appeal to me because AWD and a hatch make them useful at everyday things and in snow while still being reasonable track day stars - but I will never pay a dealer markup and I'm not gaga over either one enough to jump thru hoops or pay a deposit to get on a list. I will just wait and see if they live or die. I have plenty of options that go as fast and offer similar utility - they just don't smell new.
Golf r
"My mind is telling no , but my body is telling me yes"
Huckleberry wrote:
'm not buying today because VW does not want to sell me one the way I want it and instead want me to take whatever they have or can find on another lot... and I guess demand is strong enough for them to ignore me for the time being.
If "they" means the local dealer I completely agree. But I bet somewhere in the country your Golf R is (or will be) available at MSRP or below. Especially if you want close to a base model.
Check out this thread. No dealer was able to help me the way vwvortex did in terms of tracking cars in the pipeline.
I had to drive 350 mi to pick up mine but it was worth it!
Super Hot AWD made me think of this:
So is the internet right when it says the Golf R only comes in leather and the super dope plaid seats are only available in the GTI? That makes me sad. 
Huckleberry wrote:
Here is the nut of it... the RS is a cool car. But they have taken an econo car and put it in the price bracket of much nicer cars without doing anything about the cheapness of the interior.
When people say it's because they would of had to make it a $60k car to do that I can call BS by pointing to the Golf R. It's a little tuning away from beating the RS outright and it is so much nicer inside that it plays upmarket from it's price tag. If I was buying today, I'd buy the Golf. I'm not buying today because VW does not want to sell me one the way I want it and instead want me to take whatever they have or can find on another lot... and I guess demand is strong enough for them to ignore me for the time being.
These cars appeal to me because AWD and a hatch make them useful at everyday things and in snow while still being reasonable track day stars - but I will never pay a dealer markup and I'm not gaga over either one enough to jump thru hoops or pay a deposit to get on a list. I will just wait and see if they live or die. I have plenty of options that go as fast and offer similar utility - they just don't smell new.
Look around, from what I understand, there is no tunes available for post 3/15 build Golf R/Audi S3 because of new tweaks to the computer.
jv8 wrote:
In reply to Feedyurhed:
$10K more up front but probably $10K more on the back end when you sell. Granted if you don't have an extra $10K to tie up then it's a big deal... But it's not like that $10K evaporates.
Disagree. I think it totally evaporates, especially on a Ford that is not a limited production car. If they sell 2k of these this year they will make 5k next year and there goes your price premium. It's a Ford, not a Ferrari. There is no way you ever get back paying $10k over MSRP.
Harvey wrote:
jv8 wrote:
In reply to Feedyurhed:
$10K more up front but probably $10K more on the back end when you sell. Granted if you don't have an extra $10K to tie up then it's a big deal... But it's not like that $10K evaporates.
Disagree. I think it totally evaporates, especially on a Ford that is not a limited production car. If they sell 2k of these this year they will make 5k next year and there goes your price premium. It's a Ford, not a Ferrari. There is no way you ever get back paying $10k over MSRP.
I don't think he's talking about paying $10k over MSRP, he's talking about paying the $10k difference between an ST and an RS. And I think he's right.
So what is the appeal of the Focus RS over the Mustang GT? AWD?
slowride wrote:
So what is the appeal of the Focus RS over the Mustang GT? AWD?
AWD, 4 doors, hatch, tunability, rally-car image, probably better fuel mileage, etc.
But I'd still get the Mustang, myself.
I couldn't help but notice that the Mustang EcoBoost (which I admittedly know very little about) with a claimed 310 hp/320 ft lbs has an MSRP of $25,645.
slowride wrote:
I couldn't help but notice that the Mustang EcoBoost (which I admittedly know very little about) with a claimed 310 hp/320 ft lbs has an MSRP of $25,645.
The Focus has a different head/cams/turbo, fancy AWD system, etc.
slowride wrote:
So what is the appeal of the Focus RS over the Mustang GT? AWD?
Four tall seats and a hatch. In my Golf R I can "sit behind myself". I can't say that about any pony car... even the large ones like the Challenger.
Man, I wish they would put the GT drivetrain in a 5-door wagon/hatch... I'd pay over MSRP for that.
Closest thing recently has been a manual CTS-V wagon... nothing like a $70K wagon to make a $35K hot hatch look like a bargain.
Tom_Spangler wrote:
Harvey wrote:
jv8 wrote:
In reply to Feedyurhed:
$10K more up front but probably $10K more on the back end when you sell. Granted if you don't have an extra $10K to tie up then it's a big deal... But it's not like that $10K evaporates.
Disagree. I think it totally evaporates, especially on a Ford that is not a limited production car. If they sell 2k of these this year they will make 5k next year and there goes your price premium. It's a Ford, not a Ferrari. There is no way you ever get back paying $10k over MSRP.
I don't think he's talking about paying $10k over MSRP, he's talking about paying the $10k difference between an ST and an RS. And I think he's right.
My mistake, yeah, there is no way an ST holds value like an RS, that difference in price will hold solid.
slowride wrote:
So what is the appeal of the Focus RS over the Mustang GT? AWD?
It's not a Mustang. It has four doors, a hatch, and doesn't scream "potbelly and bald spot".
slowride wrote:
So what is the appeal of the Focus RS over the Mustang GT? AWD?
We are all car guys and girls. You'd be amazed at the number of 'normal' people who can't tell the difference between a base Imprezza and an STi, to them they are all just small econ cars despite the bright paint, massive exhaust a huge dick swinging spoiler. Same with the RS and ST compared to a base $15K Focus grocery getter. To these same people there is no distinguishing between a base V6 Mustang and a Shelby GT350 or even a Corvette. You can be completely invisible in a Focus RS, Golf R or STI, especially if it's white, but drive a V6 Mustang or Camaro and you're a gas swilling road hog who's speeding even if you're doing 5 under.
Also up here we have this thing called winter, and no matter how good snow tires are, what would you rather tackle your favorite twisty road in with 6" of fresh snow over ice, an AWD Rally wanna be or a 550hp Mustang?
Then there are people like me cross shopping the RS, V8 Mustangs, ND Miata's, Spider Abarth's, XKR JAg's and 986'S' Boxsters
Good point. I'd rather stay home... Also pretty rare to find a road that isn't plowed/salted/etc here (Chicago has winter too).
Good point on the stealth aspect. And with the Golf R you can have Audi refinement/interior without the nameplate. Stealth performance and luxury. I like it. Then again I'm a middle aged dad... so YMMV.
jv8 wrote:
Good point on the stealth aspect. And with the Golf R you can have Audi refinement/interior without the nameplate. Stealth performance and luxury. I like it. Then again I'm a middle aged dad... so YMMV.
I'd rather have an S3. Golf R still has lots of wings and spats and fugly wheels. And no tartan/plaid interior in a performance Golf? HERESY! That's like an STi without blue seats and seatbelts.
