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Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/6/16 8:32 p.m.

If GM allowed the Fiero to be made to its original intent instead of being dumbed/cheaped down as a "commuter car"? They originally wanted to make a mid engined sporty car, but to get it produced it had to be sold as fat, heavy, shoddy ForTwo.

OTOH everything GM made in that timeframe was fat, heavy, and shoddy, so it at least met design spec

Subaru selling turbo GCs in North America.
E30 station wagon.
5th-gen Camaro based on the Solstice/Sky chassis.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/6/16 8:33 p.m.

The Forte Koup and Scion Tc both fall into a "wanna be"category that they did not deserve. The humble Golf and Civic (and 2002 and 510 and 205...) were economy cars that were gifted with a dose of real sportiness. Someone took the time to make them handle and stop. So where were the "Handling by Lotus" badges for the these cars? They certain look the part and were the right size/price for the tuner generation. But the were all show and pretty limited in the go. This left a generation who missed the heyday of the Civic Si/CRX and Integra with little to excite them, and they started Uber instead of autocrossing. Sad.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/6/16 8:34 p.m.

And while we are on the subject, the Civic Si shares some blame here. Sure, it remained a dedicated model with added sport and I think this generation looked amazing. But it had the same HP for 20 years while the WRX and EVO pushed the boundaries of performance to new heights. It was a good car, it should have been a great car.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/6/16 8:38 p.m.

What if I told you there was an affordable hot hatch with 350 hp that you could easily tune to make 500. It has a back seat and a hatch and is pretty practical, but runs huge tires with plenty of rubber on the road. It traces it's lineage to a line of ACR racers that dominated on the the track. Sounds great right?


What happened?

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/6/16 8:39 p.m.

In other news...

Such promise, but in the end it couldn't even attract well-endowed girls.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UltraDork
9/6/16 8:51 p.m.
BlueInGreen44 wrote: Also, how have we not mentioned the Ford Thunderbird reboot of the year 2002

God I own or have owned all the cars here.

RevRico
RevRico GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/6/16 8:59 p.m.

No mention of the "Mustang Killer" that the Probe was supposed to be?

I was still pretty young when it went out of production, but continue to hear random mechanics and car guys talk about how it was supposed to be a Mustang replacement. Yet as far as I know, it was only ever a 4 banger play toy, and didn't do that job very well.

I've not seen or worked on one since Easter the year I turned 13, when I helped my neighbor completely dismantle one and store all the parts in his garage for the one he bought for his (then 16 year old) daughter, who then promptly refused to learn how to drive until she had a 96 civic with a GIANT wing on it. So they bought her a civic and drove her around in it for 10 years. She finally learned to drive at age 30, and has a corolla looking thing.

I'm also in the Prowler camp, but I'm glad one of the first threads I ever saw on this board was everyone complaining about it being ridiculously expensive, if not impossible, to V8 swap. I almost bought one thinking it would be fun to build up.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/6/16 9:06 p.m.

Pontiac Aztec. Hideous then now it is in style. My neighbor has one I see all the time. Change over to modern projector lights with led and it could be a 2015 model.

sesto elemento
sesto elemento SuperDork
9/6/16 9:25 p.m.

There shoulda been an is400 or better yet a is300tt with a v160 6 speed. Shoulda been a zzw30 mr2 turbo. Frs/brz with a 2gr v6.

chiodos
chiodos Dork
9/6/16 9:28 p.m.

Juke for not having the manual with awd. Im pretty sure it would have been one of those ugly cars people liked because it its not cvt.

Brz for not having a turbo version

Crz for trying to make three packages (crx si hf and whatever the base was called) into one. That car with a k motor would have sold better i think.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn UltimaDork
9/6/16 9:49 p.m.
Chadeux wrote: As much as I like Pontiac Firebird, this would have been way cooler.

I was going to suggest the Banshee. It would have been a cool production car but GM wouldn't allow a cheaper Pontiac that could have outperformed the Corvette.

Sine_Qua_Non
Sine_Qua_Non Dork
9/6/16 9:53 p.m.
dean1484 wrote: Pontiac Aztec. Hideous then now it is in style. My neighbor has one I see all the time.

Only because of Breaking Bad. I know because 2 of my friends from work bought one because of it.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/6/16 10:21 p.m.

the Aztek got better looking with age... it is not as striking now as it was when it first came out.

I am going to also lump the 1st gen Catara here. The Opel Omega came in some pretty awesome packages in Europe.. but all we got was the dumbed down and luxuried up version. It should have been the BMW fighter that the CTS became.

Also going to throw the Lincoln LS series here. Another car that should have gone head to head with the germans.. but in the end, fell short because Lincoln

Toebra
Toebra Reader
9/6/16 11:17 p.m.

There were Ford Probes with V-6 motors, I think it was the same one they put in the Taurus

I was always disappointed they never made an RSX Type R for the American market.

snailmont5oh
snailmont5oh Reader
9/7/16 2:36 a.m.

The V-6 Ford Tempo was a car that should've really ripped, but for some reason didn't.

Also, the SHO engine was originally designed to power a mid-engined two-seater, but Fiero had already ruined that.

Klayfish
Klayfish UberDork
9/7/16 6:08 a.m.

Mercury Marauder
Dodge Charger
Chrysler 300
Honda Accord V6 sedan
Nissan Maxima (recent)
last gen Pontiac Bonneville SSEi

The Marauder really stands out in that group because it missed the mark more than the others. But these are all sizable and practical family sedans that had so much potential to be a really fun car. Yet each one of these is saddled with a slushbox as your only choice. The Charger/300 and Accord frustrate me to no end because if either of them were available with a 6spd manual, I'd be on them like white on rice.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/7/16 6:38 a.m.

In reply to Klayfish:

I agree with you that I would want one as well but reality is that the manuals would sit on lots and not sell. It is not what the majority of the public want.

Klayfish
Klayfish UberDork
9/7/16 7:09 a.m.

In reply to dean1484:

Yeah, that would make them depreciate like a rock, and it would be awesome for us GRMers...

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
9/7/16 7:17 a.m.

The Del Sol not being a mid-engined car was kind of disappointing.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
9/7/16 7:45 a.m.

240SX. We never got the SR20. We never got a turbo. They became popular only after they stopped selling them here.

BlueInGreen44
BlueInGreen44 Dork
9/7/16 8:38 a.m.

One of the best looking sports cars ever. Too bad it could never keep up with the eventual competition because it was based on a platform that was (in my opinion) already starting to be outdated when the car was first introduced.

I still want one.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet UberDork
9/7/16 9:20 a.m.

I have a few that come to mind:

3rd Gen Firebirds: For the last two years of the 2nd Gen F-Body, Pontiac rolled out their performance engine of the future: The Turbo 301. They were panned in their day, mainly because it was misunderstood and tuned terribly from the factory. Originally, the plan was for GM to roll out the 3rd Gen cars in 1980, but delays pushed it back for 2 years, so they tossed the 301T in the 2nd Gen cars. This engine was supposed to make the jump into the 3rd gen cars and eventually gain multi-port EFI and an intercooler later down the line, just like the Buick 3.8 SFI Turbo. People figured out real quick how to make those go really fast. Can you imagine how insane a factory built TURBO EFI V8 would have been in the mid-late 80's? Instead, bean counters forced Pontiac to drop their engine program and adopt the Chevy 305. All they got was that turbo bump in the hood on certain models.

1987-88 Mercury Cougar XR7: While it's platform-mate Ford Thunderbird received a healthy refresh of the Turbo Coupe, complete with hood scoops, a revised front fascia, rear discs, and an option for the 5-speed, The Cougar XR7 was an afterthought. It received gray and black stripes around the bottom of the car, Mustang 10 hole wheels, a full center console with a floor shift (auto only), and an anemic 150hp low output 5.0L V8. It did get a Traction-Lok rear axle and quad shocks, but it was a 7.5" one with drum brakes. I had two of these in high school, and while they were good platforms for modification, they should have at least come with a slightly detuned 5.0 HO to match the output of the Turbo Coupe. The 88's got full color bumpers and trim and Mustang turbines instead of the 10 holes. Yay.

2000-2004 Grand Am GT: Back then, Pontiac was still hot. They were slowly becoming the "Performance Division" of GM, and a cool concept came out called the Grand Am SC/T that looked ready for production. It sported a 3.4 liter supercharged V6 making 262hp and 289tq. It was supposed to be offered with either a 4-speed auto or a 5-speed manual, and had big, functional hood scoops reminiscent of the old 70's Firebird Formula scoops. In typical GM fashion, the only thing that made it to production were the scoops, and they were not functional. Back then, this would have been a very cool car.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
9/7/16 9:21 a.m.
Toebra wrote: There were Ford Probes with V-6 motors, I think it was the same one they put in the Taurus

Probes weren't bad cars in their own right, just won't scratch the same itch a Mustang will. The first gen could be had with a turbocharged four banger or the Taurus V6, although if you were wishing Ford offered the Taurus SHO mill in them, I can understand. This apparently bolts together with factory parts. Second generation got a Mazda DOHC V6 as the top option.

Here are some of my list of missed opportunities.

  • The Lincoln LS could be bought with a manual transmission, or a V8, but not both at the same time. And they could have put a bit of a sportier suspension in there.
  • Buick considered a mid engined version of the Reatta, but canned it because it had too much noise, vibration, and harshness. Someone was asking the wrong questions. And imagine what that could have done with the 3800 Supercharged and a Getrag 5 speed.
  • No H22A powered Honda Accords for the US market. OK, that may not have been very different from a Prelude, but it would have been a bit sneakier.
  • Toyota's decision to saddle the MR2 Spyder with a 1ZZ-FE when the more powerful and rev happy 2ZZ-GE would have fit right in there. No surprise that this same company failed to offer a serious performance version of the Scion tC.

On the DeLorean, while the PRV V6 wasn't a great choice, it's hard to think of any really good choices for an engine that was available when they were built. Maybe a Mazda rotary?

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UberDork
9/7/16 9:34 a.m.

The only new car I've ever owned was a 1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse. Not sure why I didn't buy a 240SX but there you go. It was an excellent car for it's time that I remember thinking many times "this should be rear wheel drive". Sporty, coupey, 4 cyl RWD just never really took off.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper UltimaDork
9/7/16 10:06 a.m.

Shouldn't have been: 3rd generation Camero. 4 cylinder engine and an automatic transmission. That was sad, so sad.

Could have been: SSR. I was so excited when I first heard of this. Then I read the specs and was so disappointed. If only they'd have given it some truck like abilities. Even a quarter ton capacity would have been a big help.

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