Cheap, reasonably powerful FWD cars?

eastsidemav wrote:

Brotus7 wrote: Is this FWD drivetrain going in the back of something in the future? Are there any other considerations (such as preferred transmission offerings, weight, high revs and HP vs low revs and TQ)?

Busted. I'm thinking ahead to the 2011 Challenge, and am at a crossroads. The current project hasn't gone as well as I wanted it to, and I'm debating a whole new path for 2011. Something of the R5/Shogun variety. For simplicity's sake, it'd probably be better to have an autotragic, but if the Durocco guys could get a stickshift rear engine setup working, I guess I could, too. Thinking about it, the Intrepid drivetrain might not work so well, depending on the vehicle this would get stuffed into. Is the Saab 9000 like a 900, or is it a more conventional transverse setup?

9000's are transverse mount. With an Aero you'll be playing with 225hp/250ft/lb stock. CS/CSE are less with their T25's, BUT, the engine is exactly the same. Just the Mitsu TD04 turbo and a reflashed ECU away. Once you've got that taken care of, you can have even more ECU. My 9k Aero dyno'd an extra 32whp over a stock one with nothing but a lightly tuned ECU...

Also, if you want to sacrifice a bit of torque for some revs you can go with the 2.0t out of the ng900. Same engine as the 9000, but shorter stroke.

WilberM3 wrote: what about the 3.5L intrepid/300m drivetrain?

If its a 1st gen intrepid and it's never had a trans put in it it will need one. If it has had the trans rebuilt then it will need one. If the trans had been replaced, it will need one.

80s turbo dodge for the win. 2.4 Chrysler turbo, the SRT-4 was rated low. The 2.4 T in the pt gt was only 17x hp but that was all in the boost control/computer because of the auto.

Look for a N* powered Caddy with a blown headgasket, you can usually get nice examples for sub $1000 because a new motor or HG job will run a person $2500-4000. In reality if you are pulling the engine yourself, a Timesert, Norms-Kit, or some other kit I can't remember it was new when I was getting out of my Eldo can be had for $300-500, once it's fixed the engine is good to go for another 100-200k easy, and it is such a sweet engine. I miss it daily, just not the cost of ownership of a Caddy, but if you're removing the most reliable parts of the car (sans headbolts/headgaskets) then you are looking in the right direction...

Get the ETC/STS/DTC variant and it's 300HP/290ft-lbs with a 6800RPM redline. If you ditch the power robbing 4T80E (20-30% loss is typical) and throw a Getrag on there you'll gain back 20-30HP at the wheels...

Honestly they are sweet engines, but in such a poor layout it's really sad, oh and part the rest of the car, you'll get back alot of your $$$ if the car is in good shape minus the HGs...

Well, I think you should go with the drivetrain out of an Acura 3.5RL. It's basically the same engine as an NSX, except not quite.

perhaps a

1. mitsubishi diamante 2.mazda millenia 3.acura legend coupe (6spd) 4.mitsubishi 3000gt 5.nissan maxima 6.oldsmobile aurora

I just saw the post after i put mine up. Jetta 1.8t 180 hp low trade in values an be had cheap. What are you planning?

Dav wrote: Mid 60's Olds Toronado.

I love those cars!

But really, I don't think you can find 'em cheap.

I'd go with the 626/MX-6 Turbos.

http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/12910-Twin-V6-442!-back-on-track...

long thread just go fast and look at pics

Teqnyck wrote:

The poster formally known as 96DXCivic wrote: Mazda MX6 GT

Or Probe GT of the same vintage. Good call. That should have been my first answer.

What they said. Only 145hp from factory, though they usually dyno that and more to the wheels. Can get SILLY fast for peanuts. They're like japanese turbo Mopars.

i guess you guys are talking really cheap motors, but the first thing that came to my mind when you said fwd around 200hp to go into a mid-engine was the k20a2 from the 2002-2004 acura rsx-s.

cable shift transmission, hydraulic clutch, drive by wire throttle (i think).

I see that the SHO was mentioned; the 'regular' 96+ Duratec TauruSables had 200 hp. They made tons of them...and as such, they can be had real inexpensively...and are pretty reliable cars.

SVT Contour....

From a reliability standpoint, its hard to argue with an older Maxima.

$500 VW Jetta GLX VR6 in the classifieds.. 172hp stock.

I'm not sure where you're located, but a friend of mine has this '96 9000 Aero 5spd. Tuned, supporting mods, etc. The other day it got backed into by a Hummer and totalled. He's selling it for a grand...

Still driveable, still fast as hell, took it in the drivers 1/4 panel.

Ignoring the reliable requirement- Alfa 164- the 2V ones did put out 200hp, and the 4v's- 220.

My wife had an LS for a long time, and it was in the shop for a while, when we got to borrow an earlier 2V one with a 5 speed- pretty sweet car.

It's basically a Saab 9000, as it shared the platform with that and the Lancia Thema (if you can find that- Ferrari v8 power....).

Design by Pinifarina... And you CAN find them cheap.

If its a 1st gen intrepid and it's never had a trans put in it it will need one. If it has had the trans rebuilt then it will need one. If the trans had been replaced, it will need one.

Not necessarily true.. Every 604/606 ive had has never given me early problems. The trans in my intrepid burned up 4th gear at 120k because i hammered 240hp through it for a LONG time at 130mph (the one gear that is actually weak). Considering that on an intrepid you dont have to shift to 4th til somewhere between 115 and 136mph (depending on which tcm you have), i dont think the 4th gear weakness is a big deal. A guy with a 9 second neon put 600 hp through a 604. Turbo pt guys put power through em all the time.

So it ALL depends on how it was taken care of.

saab, any of them!!

a classic 900 turbo can be pumped up ways past 200whp with a few resistors, an ebay intercooler kit, and a few resistors placed in the right spot.

a 9000 makes 200hp and 230tq stock, nevermind what happens after software (freeware tuning) and a 3in exhaust..

Ng900s are highway asualt cars, due to light weight, and great aerodynamics. but have sloppy handling

Okay, tons more ideas. I haven't seen any K-Series honda, V6 Acura RL, or VW 1.8t in driveable shape for under $1000 here in the rust belt.

If I go through with this, I will keep in mind the 4-banger turbo cars, though I really don't want to have to crank up the boost on a 20+ year old car and hope...

Hadn't thought of the Mitsu 6G72. Not overly common here, but it seems like the cars they are in have awful resale value.

I really like the idea of pretty much using a stock engine, just because everything else in a project like this would be a massive undertaking. Not to mention, once the challenge is over, it'd probably get driven to rallycrosses, and it'll need to be sturdy and easy to grab parts for.

In reply to eastsidemav:

k20a2 from the 2002-2004 acura rsx-s. cable shift transmission, hydraulic clutch, drive by wire throttle (i think).

huh?

Strizzo wrote: In reply to eastsidemav:

k20a2 from the 2002-2004 acura rsx-s. cable shift transmission, hydraulic clutch, drive by wire throttle (i think).

huh?

Its a nice setup, but I don't think I'd find one in my price range. I'm pretty sure I'd want the whole car, in order to get some of the little pieces a challenge car inevitably needs, and to sell down to reduce the budget. Unless someone's already importing front clips for these from Japan dirt cheap.

Also, did not realize the Ford 3.0 was making 200 HP back in 96. Seems like you can't look at craigslist without tripping over a cheap Taurus or Sable.

Oh yeah, one nice thing to have (but not needed) would be a broad torque range. If it gets rallycrossed after doing challenge duty, it'd be nice not to have a peaky engine.

patgizz wrote: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/12910-Twin-V6-442!-back-on-track... long thread just go fast and look at pics

Quoted because that is so wrong it goes all the way back around to right.

1993-97 or so Honda Prelude. ~190hp stock.

someone mentioned 4th generation (95-99) maximas and I can't believe I didn't think of that, since I used to be a moderator on maxima.org, lol.

but yeah, definitely go for that. You should be able to find a fair-condition 95 or 96 for around that price. 190hp stock V6. Easy to get up to around 220 with the VIAS intake manifold from the 5th gen or MEVI. Easy to get up to around 240 at the crank with a y-pipe and catback exhuast. The VQ30DE engine is virtually bulletproof, strong, smooth, and has a timing chain. I've seen many many many of them go 300k miles with nary more than fluid and plug changes. Manual transmission is strong and has very few problems. Suspension is simple but handles decent. And you'd be surprised at the decent aftermarket for these cars.

Plus older Maximas have never held their value so can be found really cheap. Check the classifieds at Maxima.org. Here's an example:

a few examples:

95 auto in good mechanical shape for $1000 http://forums.maxima.org/maximas-sale-wanted/623900-95-maxima-gxe-auto-trans-160k-1000-a.html

2000 5th gen for $1700 http://forums.maxima.org/maximas-sale-wanted/620512-il-2000-nissan-maxima-5spd-1700-runs-strong-182k-miles.html

2000 with a few cosmetic issues and salvage title $1500 http://forums.maxima.org/maximas-sale-wanted/622581-2000-maxima-se-1-500-a.html

and that was from looking for 30 seconds...

From another thread:

Crazy build.

FS: 1997 Saab convertible - 403 hp/501 tq

alfadriver wrote: Ignoring the reliable requirement- Alfa 164- the 2V ones did put out 200hp, and the 4v's- 220. My wife had an LS for a long time, and it was in the shop for a while, when we got to borrow an earlier 2V one with a 5 speed- pretty sweet car. It's basically a Saab 9000, as it shared the platform with that and the Lancia Thema (if you can find that- Ferrari v8 power....). Design by Pinifarina... And you CAN find them cheap.

Plus it is one of the sexier looking FWD V6 engines. The SHO V6 is prettier, but has a cast iron block. The Alfa V6 is all aluminium.

Just keep up with timing belt changes and the Alfa V6 is reliable.

eastsidemav wrote:

Strizzo wrote: In reply to eastsidemav:

k20a2 from the 2002-2004 acura rsx-s. cable shift transmission, hydraulic clutch, drive by wire throttle (i think).

huh?

Its a nice setup, but I don't think I'd find one in my price range. I'm pretty sure I'd want the whole car, in order to get some of the little pieces a challenge car inevitably needs, and to sell down to reduce the budget. Unless someone's already importing front clips for these from Japan dirt cheap. Also, did not realize the Ford 3.0 was making 200 HP back in 96. Seems like you can't look at craigslist without tripping over a cheap Taurus or Sable. Oh yeah, one nice thing to have (but not needed) would be a broad torque range. If it gets rallycrossed after doing challenge duty, it'd be nice not to have a peaky engine.

the ford 3.0 also became the mazda 3.0 in the 6, which was also available with a stick, also cable operated, hydraulic clutch, and definitely drive by wire, oh, and with the addition of VVT, the mazda6 v6 made 220hp