Now that my son is a bit older, I want to get involved in some racing as well. Probably rally-cross, with a bit of the Ohio Mile as well. I just need to find a dual purpose car.
Now that my son is a bit older, I want to get involved in some racing as well. Probably rally-cross, with a bit of the Ohio Mile as well. I just need to find a dual purpose car.
Once again the Miata is THE answer. It's a DD, fuel econo, track car, convertible chick magnet, potentially gay guy car. It can do everything!
Many local dirt or paved oval tracks have a fwd or 4cyl class that is geared toward being a lower dollar approach to racing.
Sample: http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/4745261570.html
I'm a little biased, But a racing kart is a "Affordable" form of a pure racing machine. See if there's a sprint kart track or a oval with a Mini Outlaw or a Unlimited kart class. The UAS class requires you to have racing experience but a "Sportsmen" UAS class would work too.
A lot depends on what innate skills you have.
Autocrossing is driving plus course location. If you are good at seeing a path through cones, then it is a fun way to burn gas. If not, its gets boring pretty quick.
Track days are the closest to the Go-Kart experience. Not really "racing" since you have the lines all to yourself and are not dealing with the pressure of 5 other drivers who would sell their mother's soul for your position hovering around you.
You mention Karts, why not go that way? Some serious racing goes on in these things and the entry $$$ is not too bad. If you like to party with your peeps, then look into one of the arrive and drive enduro races. Be aware that these events are very physical. Rend the rib protectors.
I know it's a car forum, but for pure outdoor exposure of your brass balls, nothing beats motorcycle racing. The suits are cooler than car racing race suits and the sense of immediate speed is way beyond what you get in a car. The threat of immediate death works well to keel you focused.
Then there is Vintage. Kinda like a movie Karate fight in that contact is really frowned upon, but the possibility is always there. You are on a real race track, racing with guys who don't want to wreck their car as much as you don't want to wreck yours. Plus, you get to drive a cool old car that breaks a lot and offers mechanical challenges.
Another way to approach this is go get your SCCA racing license with a rented car. At the end of the show, you will have a pretty good idea if this is something that you want to pursue or if it was just something to get out of your system.
If you don't know it yet, racing takes a LOT of your free time.If you enjoy the race prep time, then you are golden. If the race prep is a chore that conflicts with other time demands, racing wont be fun.
In reply to curtis73:
One thing that will likely influence what you end up enjoying is what is close enough for you to attend. If we knew where you live and how far you would be reasonably OK driving or towing, we might be able to suggest different types of racing that is within (or nearly so) the range you state. Whatever you end up doing, if you really enjoy it you may reasonably expect to venture further afield for the varied venues and competition (assuming it is not some type racing that is strictly local to you).
We can all make recommendations based on our own personal taste, but you need to decide what you like best. Yeah, I know your question is "I don't know all that's out there and want to get educated", but I'd suggest picking one you know and getting a start. If you want to start with as low budget as possible, try autox or arrive and drive karting. I started with autox and enjoyed it for a while, but then found it wasn't what I really wanted to focus on. I also did arrive/drive indoor karting...it was fun, but not exactly what I wanted, especially given the cost (and I broke a rib). I then tried track days (HPDE), which were awesome, but I found it still didn't satisfy my wants. I really wanted to go wheel to wheel, so I'm now eyeball deep in LeMons and feel like I've found my holy grail. And BTW, I drove my first LeMons race on my 40th birthday. But that's just my own personal journey into racing. Maybe you'll find you love autox or HPDE or discover cross country ballroom dancing...you won't really know until you try.
As for finding out that k-car rock climbing exists, once you start getting into racing of any kind, you'll meet all kinds of people who are into different kinds of racing and you'll learn a lot that way.
I think you should look at your budget first. Autocross, rallycross and HPDE/track day are at the bottom of the price scale, unless you count sim racing - you can pretty much get in with a street car and a small entry fee, competing seriously gets more expensive. Also the risk of balling the car up is minimal to nonexistent (although track days will give you the opportunity).
Beyond here you really have to be ready to ball up the car.
Next step up is crapcan racing (LeMons/ChumpCar). The cars are cheap, realistically they have a few grand in them, but you can forget about a dual-use car so the price goes up, and then you need proper safety gear and tools etc for use on track. This is the cheapest way you can get into real wheel-to-wheel racing competitively - karts may be cheaper at a very basic level, but being competitive in karts gets really expensive really fast. Circle track is in the same price range.
Next step up from that is hillclimb, you need proper safety gear again and entry fees can be steep but you could run a dual-use car in this.
Beyond that it's club racing and then stage rally, those are both pretty damn expensive because you need to build a car to a rulebook and deck it out with serious safety gear, a dual-use car for this would be highly impractical at best. Fees can be steep, and stage rally has heavy auxiliary costs for support, transport etc. In stage rally you will be chucking the car sideways at 10/10ths inches away from obstacles that will obliterate your car at the very least. You have to give zero berkeleys about that car.
Beyond that it's pay-to-play AKA "gentleman driving" which can go all the way up to becoming your own Maldonado in F1 
but to look back down the scale, you can do this in crapcan racing for 3-digit amounts as well.
I think everybody should compete in at least one hillclimb in their life. It's a perspective changer.
Drag racing got me hooked to going fast. Aggressive mountain driving (canyon carving) got me interested going fast in something other than a straight line. Autocross was my gateway into participatory motorsports, working a hillclimb got me addicted and it gets worse with every one I go to. I don't have any money for a comp car (and I can't afford $1000 weekends), but I'm constantly on the lookout for my hillclimb/time trial ride.
Hang out in the pits or better yet volunteer to crew, see it from the inside. Try any type of event you might even think you might be interested in. Talk to everybody, bring a camera, make contacts, be a racing gypsy for a season.
Dirt or asphalt short track ovals are w/ in most reasonable driving distances. Entry level class cars are relatively cheap. After points racing is over for the season some teams may rent you a car w/ crew support. That's what I did, got mid-week track practice and race night for one price, arrive and drive. What better way to see if it clicks w/o going buy the car first route.
Don't discount off-road. One local chapter had 4X4 drags, hill climbs, side by side obstacle course and solo time trials (kinda like rally cross but through the woods, rocks, creeks... you name it) looked like a berkeleying blast. They were some of the most accommodating racers I ever met.
I'll skip the other types already covered. You'll probably know it when you see it. First time I crewed for a road race team I was hooked, no doubt, meant to be.
IT is a good and reasonable cost, get your feet wet class in SCCA. Two schools, two regionals and you're licensed. Good racing community w/ good safety practices (another reason I went SCCA). Again, spend time crewing for different teams.
From what I remember of the Curtis builds I bet he would fit in SCCA American Sedan or NASA equivalent.
at least for nasa and scca, call your regional folks and let them know you're interested. They may have drivers' meetings or get you set up to volunteer for an event or two to meet the folks, see more of how things go. It will also let you see how well organized the events run and see some of the personalities. Also check out vintage racing. It can be relatively cheap with a spridget or spitfire. NASA has a path to wheel to wheel racing through hpde days. I think SCCA still wants you in a driver's school. The vintage folks accept NASA/SCCA licences and some will do their own driver's ed (but probably not accepted by SCCA or NASA since it is a bit less competitive. Then there's more of the time events like autocross, rallycross, hillclimbs or time attacks that are you against a clock instead of a pack of cars sharing the same general space.
fasted58 wrote: Don't discount off-road. One local chapter had 4X4 drags, hill climbs, side by side obstacle course and solo time trials (kinda like rally cross but through the woods, rocks, creeks... you name it) looked like a berkeleying blast. They were some of the most accommodating racers I ever met.
I do off-road, I didn't mention it because where you live makes a big difference in how long you have to tow (or fly!) to get to such an event.
Prices can range from "similar to rallycross" to "similar to stage rally" or even worse depending on what you want to do. The offroad rally I compete in is probably in the same ballpark as hillclimb for cost. Consumables and repairs are a big part of the cost of offroading.
JFX001 wrote: Now that my son is a bit older, I want to get involved in some racing as well. Probably rally-cross, with a bit of the Ohio Mile as well. I just need to find a dual purpose car.
Want to buy a rallycross national championship winning Miata?
Super Trucks, your track car can then tow the hauler!
DaveEstey wrote: I think everybody should compete in at least one hillclimb in their life. It's a perspective changer.
See, that was my original thought. I think I would like hillclimbs but everyone said that I would just die and I should get it out of my head.
Sounds like those people are just scared and don't understand it.
captdownshift wrote:
I'm in. Moving to Europe. Bye.
This thread really rocks, thanks folks. So much good info that I might cry a little.
curtis73 wrote:captdownshift wrote:
You don't need to move to Europe. http://www.champtruck.us.com/
You're welcome...
NOHOME wrote: A lot depends on what innate skills you have.
I have a massive brain full of insane quantities of book learning on everything automotive engineering. I could design an entire suspension system on paper for towing, traction, handling, you name it. I can modify an engine to do almost anything I want. But I have only practically applied it on a very few actual vehicles, and most of those vehicles were land yachts that I build for the street. I have spent a lifetime digesting everything I could about vehicle dynamics because its a passion of mine, but its time to actually use it and make something of it.
When it comes to driving, I am great at going fast in a straight line (see: land yacht comment). I have owned a few vehicles that actually handle (modified e30, e36, Yamaha R6) but I have little or no technique in turning. That needs to change.
Not that you asked, but there is my current skill set.
Another vote for karting here. You've already got an El Camino to haul it with! Go to your local track, see what classes have the most support, pick one, and go. It's kind of affordable, they're easy to work on, and you don't need a crew or lots of fancy equipment. Spend time learning your road racing technique and then you can decide if you want to move up to cars or not.
curtis73 wrote: I have a massive brain full of insane quantities of book learning on everything automotive engineering. I could design an entire suspension system on paper for towing, traction, handling, you name it. I can modify an engine to do almost anything I want. But I have only practically applied it on a very few actual vehicles, and most of those vehicles were land yachts that I build for the street. I have spent a lifetime digesting everything I could about vehicle dynamics because its a passion of mine, but its time to actually use it and make something of it.
sounds like $201X domination and crapcan (Chump/WRL/AER) would be a great for you, as a bonus almost anything with a logbook can be hillclimbed (just get fresh supersticky rubber for it). Bonus for being able to use your racing truck as a tow rig.
I have to agree with several writers. It is imperative that you consider where you live. When I lived in S.Cal. you could choose to race in almost any genre and be near your race events.
Everywhere else I've lived, you can have huge time and commute (tow) limitations. Plus multiple other problems, such as parts availability, if you try to race in events that are not found in your locale.
It's not always about what genre you choose. Rather what you can choose and actually do!
Take your El Camino (I'm assuming it's real nice) and go to an autocross. If you don't mind getting it dirty, go to a rallycross. It will cost you gas and entry fee to get some seat time. Also get a ride with one of the fast drivers to see what it's like from inside the car. The El Camino will not handle well, but that wallowing will help you to smooth out your driving. It's a great car for learning. JUST DO IT! Then you will have a lot more information to decide what's the best next step for you. Now get out there!
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