Note that Dave's lemons cage took 60 hours. At $80 shop rate that's $4800 (and not out of line for that quality). Even at half cost (or half time if your speedy) that's still pretty spendy. Real cages cost real money.
Dom tubing is ~ $4 / ft retail price x 80 ft is another $300+ its the labor that makes it $$$
Kj
I'd have no problem sharing a HANS, but I wouldn't personally race any w-2-w without one (but I have a previous neck injury).
I'm hoping to start gathering personal safety gear in the hope of doing a Lemons or Chump within the next 2 years.
So to sum all this up (please), you can build a car for a reasonable amount of $$. You can share your gear if you want to, but don't have to. You can buy used gear and save $$$ even though you might smell bad. Additionally you can make your own decisions and drive in an environment that is likely safer than rush hour because nobody is texting while they race. The bottom line is make your own decisions, be in your own safety comfort zone and............ wait for it...............wait for it.............HAVE SOME FUN!!!!!!!!!!!
I think the most important thing is to light stacks of hundred dollar bills on fire so you can feel safe.
Nah, you pretty much nailed it.
poopshovel wrote: I think the most important thing is to light stacks of hundred dollar bills on fire so you can feel safe.
Brilliant.
I don't know how to weld. I really don't care to learn, especially on something that I depend on for my life. My perspective is different on this board vs others, but the rollbar I had built was worth every penny I spent on it.
HANS are easy to share, but I'm still not sharing mine. Again, it's a personal piece of safety equipment. It's meant to save my life and I'm not letting it out of my control.
There are many professional drivers out in the Lemons/Chump series and there are many, many novices. They had a 100 car field at PPIR and that track is so short that when we have 20 time trial cars on it we're all over one another. Not for me...
Javelin wrote: I'd have no problem sharing a HANS, but I wouldn't personally race any w-2-w without one (but I have a previous neck injury). I'm hoping to start gathering personal safety gear in the hope of doing a Lemons or Chump within the next 2 years.
Worth it. Trust me.
We got a free parts car E30 convertible from the forums here. Being thrifty (cheap) is key here. We then bought another car to use for donor drivetrain (Fox body Mustang). We sold parts off of it totaling more than we bought it for (but only counted up to what we paid for). If we were putting a stock drivetrain in the car we probably could have even bought upgraded suspension.
We got screwed around on the cage and after paying someone to weld it, ended up having to scrap the cage due to their terrible welds. So that didn't help our budget, but it cost us $1800/person (4 people) for everything for our first race. We had stuff in there that we didn't need to buy but we wanted the car to be reliable so if it was something we were allowed to replace as a safety item, for the most part we did.
Our car was revalued at $250 after the first race. We probably "need" about $150 of that to get back to a good running state, but we will spend the extra $100 because we have it, probably on an oil cooler or something that might help us save money in the long run. We added a fifth driver and it will be at about $400/person. That includes $210/person for entry fees. Tires and pads are good for at least one more race. We did have to replace our stainless lines because one ruptured at an autocross (don't buy cheap ebay parts), and we are upgrading to a dual circuit brake system due to seeing the consequences of a brake failure at the autocross and not wanting to repeat it at a higher speed.
I think the price of the first race scared some of our team, but now seeing that the initial investment is made, and the races are much cheaper to do in the future, everyone is happy. We aren't trying to win the race, just finish them and have fun. To me that is what this is all about.
I don't recommend starting with an x-race car. Start with an intact, running driving car with some extreme reason for being cheap:
-My dog ate the interior.
-Someone died in the car.
-My husband had sex with that whore of a secretary in that car, so I set it on fire, then him.
-My aun't Agnes played bumper cars with it, but it otherwise runs and drives great.
p.s. Endurance racing is a truly epic car-guy experience. Get yourself out there. Tech officials from both sanctioning bodies are far more concerned with zero-ing out your performance advantage than nit picking your exact expenditure. For example, you can barely hear our engine when it's running. It's plenty clear that we're running a stock turd of a 302--cam and all. That shiny new bone stock replacement radiator? They want us to finish every race and come back for more.
Yup. And that dude who shows up in the $30,000 race car gets 30,000 penalty laps. As a big fish in a little pond, he looks silly. For him it's a cheap test day without having to rent the track for himself.
Both participants get more seat time than in any other sportsman high performance environment this side of ALMS and the Rolex. Trust the tech officials to do their job. Instead, do whatever it takes to get to that seat time and enjoy the strategerizering.
As for keeping costs down, S&W Race Cars - well known for building drag and pro street chassis - will cut and bend you a Crapcan legal cage on the cheap if you supply a few basic measurements.
Ancient chinese secret: http://www.swracecars.com/store/Lemons--Chumps-Car-Roll-Cages-OSCAR_354.aspx
In reply to Steve Chryssos:
We used the S&W kit for an E30. It wasn't a perfect fit, but it was good. Then the "welder" we hired to finish the welding ruined it. We cut the cage out and used it as a template to make a new one. If we only had to make it once, it would have been a cheap cage.
camaroz1985 wrote: In reply to Steve Chryssos: Then the "welder" we hired to finish the welding ruined it.
You probably just didn't pay him enough. 
HiTempguy wrote: Once again, you can not buy proper cage material for under $500, no way, no how.
I respectfully disagree. Maybe prices are different in up in Canada, but in CT, we just picked up 90ft of 1.75x.095 wall DOM tube for $4.25 a foot. We ought to have 10-15ft extra too. When you add in the spreader plates, $1/lb, our total cost with welding gas will be just under $500. That said, we have a tube bender, a welder (machine and person), and have done this before.
Our budget: Total cost per race=~$2k. Build cost including purchase=~$3k. Seat time comes out to about 2.5hrs per driver provided the car doesn't grenade. $200/hr of race time is hard to beat in a car. Outdoor karting is great racing for the money, we just don't have many options close to me. Indoor karting gets expensive.
As for safety gear, that's another ball of wax. OG racing has good closeouts (Sparco suit for $200, nice gloves with externa stitching for $40), but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used Nascah suit if I had to buy one again.
We argue crapcan cost 'round the office all the time. It gets ugly. As far as I'm concerned, we're racing cars not ideology. Racing is dangerous. Racing is arduous. Safety and reliability are paramount. Ideology is for auditoriums. I'm biased, but I think Grassroots Motorsports places a much more realistic value on crap car cost at $2012. We even adjust for inflation (sort of).
I've never done a survey, but my wild ass guess in response to the OP is: Most of these $500 cars are really $1500-2000 cars (plus allowances). To clarify, a $500 car with a blown engine and a $500 replacement engine plus, plus ceases to be a $500 car right after you drag it home. I'm only trying to be realistic. There is nothing worse than watching LeMons cars blow cookies on the warm up lap. It makes me feel very sad.
In reply to Steve Chryssos:
I agree, most cars I see in the LeMons paddock are $1500 to $2000 cars. That said it is possible to build a real LeMons car for cheap. We've finished in the top 5 at 7 LeMons races and never gotten any BS points.
1996 Neon with 266k miles $200 used Mopar high rate springs $100 rear sway bar from junk yard $20 used cables to relocate battery $25 assorted new parts to be reliable (tie rod ends, engine mount) $100
Then you have safety items. We got really luck on our cage and got an SCCA legal one used for $350. There were nearly 4000 show room stock neons racing in the 90's so the parts are out there, you just need to dig. Buy some good brakes and tires and you could be a winner.
We've tracked our costs for each race on one spreadsheet. A LeMons event usually costs between $450 and $650 per driver for absolutely everything. I know that's a big swing but sometimes we traveled from Detroit to Chicago and once we drove to Thunder Hill. Considering you get hours of track time its a good deal.
Here's some pics from the original build. The car has changed since then (we bought the SCCA legal cage) but its still the same green machine.
http://www.beaterblog.com/2010/04/beater-to-24-hours-of-lemons-racer-in.html
Get friendly with your local boneyard owner! 
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/lemonschumpcar-trucktrailerracecar-package/46398/page1/
OK if you're a young kid you could tent it. At some point that no longer is an option
I guess I'm a big kid. Camping is the way to fly. And our guys have a mutual understanding to save the car first and foremost. Short-shifting is the norm.
But yeah, you definitely do need to factor in getting to/from the track and a whole lotta fuel while you're there, and that needs to be calculated up front and split.
Look, not everyone can afford racing. There are years when I can, and years when I can't. But I'd rather do a Lemons race or two than a full season of autocross with an out of town divisional or two. YMMV.
I can definitely see how sleeping on the ground would be no fun after 50.
10 bucks at the CMP concession stand goes a long way. I bought $5 worth of gatorades and $2 woth of water that will last me all weekend. $5.99 gets you 2 eggs, bacon, hashbrowns or biscuit/gravy at waffle house. I cooked the first event. Spent $200 on food and was reimbursed $80. That never happened again.
Wives/girlfriends/kids stay home.
I slept in the back of my PT cruiser, which was a bit cramped, with a blanket. Food was included in all of my budgeting, and we eat well.
I was shocked and amazed last weekend at the CMP Lemons race which yielded free food, beer and entertainment! At one point some Russians were providing grilled lamb, there was a community run what ya brung fryer, peoples handing out free beer, BOWLING and pile on the car rides, tent fires, and the thrill of camping out during thunderstorms.
We usually have a large camper or my enclosed trailer to crash in. This year the wife decided that camping was out so we chickened out and stayed at the Holiday Inn. The storms that came through Saturday morning made me glad we did. Missed the rides around the paddock in the Tuna boat though. 
Yeah, Toyman, sorry we missed you for that.
Westside, were you on the pile-on? Didn't see you in the sea of folks.
The free beer was from the Duff beer guys - they make their own and label it Duff. it's nice stuff, too.
You do miss out on a lot of the track festivities if you stay in a hotel, but in the middle of summer it sure is nice to have a cool dry place to sleep. We are staying in hotels this year, tented the last two.
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