I finally got to drive an NC yesterday and enjoyed it, so I'm going to go ahead and throw an S2000 into the mix.......just have to find one locally to test drive first.
I've got a good handle of what to look for on the NC, but what should I be looking for on the Honda? What are the common problems? What are the fixes like for these problems? etc.
Power you can expect out of bolt-ons and tune, if any?
Thank you good people of GRM. 
S2k>>> nc
IIRC the S2k is in a rather high state of tune already, you're not going to get a lot of extra power out of them unless you build the engine or go FI.
^That's kind of what I figured, but thought I'd ask. Any input on common problems of things to look for?
old_ wrote: S2k>>> nc
Care to expound on that?
I don't really think they have any common problems.
Other than it seems like every third one i see has some sort of issue with a tear in the top.
My friend here has an 02 with an AEM intake and InVidia single exit exhaust and it picked up some power from those modifications.
If it were my car i would have gone with a quieter exhaust, but the intake is fun.
Good to know! This one is 2 hours away at what I'd call a "boutique used" lot.
Audi R8 spyders, old customs, etc. So I'm assuming it's as nice as it looks (although that bit me in the ass yesterday)
Any durability concerns? The car would be my DD and has 75k on it? I know Honda builds fantastic engines, but didn't know if the Revvy nature shortens its life span at all.
z31maniac wrote: Good to know! This one is 2 hours away at what I'd call a "boutique used" lot. Audi R8 spyders, old customs, etc. So I'm assuming it's as nice as it looks (although that bit me in the ass yesterday) Any durability concerns? The car would be my DD and has 75k on it? I know Honda builds fantastic engines, but didn't know if the Revvy nature shortens its life span at all.
I've seen quite a few of them with over 200k miles already with really not much other than oil changes.
My buddy got his maybe.... 2 years ago with 17k miles. He's around 70k miles now, drives it EVERYWHERE. Hasn't given him one bit of trouble, and he beats on it.
My only concern with you getting an S2000 is that it'll make you wonder what the berkeley you're doing with your Miata. 
Hmmm, you're really encouraging me to look at this one!
All are at least 100 miles away. Although the guy told me if I didn't take the S2000 home, he would fill up the tank in the Mustang.
The only thing that comes to mind is that supposedly some of the AP1 engines can burn oil, with predictable consequences when you don't check the oil regularly.
Oh, and if it doesn't have a hardtop, those are massively expensive compared to an NA/NB hardtop (no idea what the going rate for an NC hardtop is).
To me they really felt like an NA with all the knobs turned to 11. I still want one...
The torn tops come from a worn out elastic band that pulls the middle bar back & down. If you see the top not going all the way down flush then you simply push it back up and help the middle bar down.
If you continue to use the motor to try to get it flush then at some time you'll push the latches through the front or pinch the side near the back and things will tear.
The solution is a new band, they are cheap.
The real early cars ('99 thru '01) had kinda weak synchros and a plastic rear window that oxidizes and dies. Those problems were fixed in '02 with better synchros and a glass rear window. Aside from that I don't recall any other issues they have. I'll go dig up the GRM buyers guide and report back.
Disclosure: I am not a huge fan of either the NC or S2000 but like both cars. Just not my cup of tea.
S2000:
A friend recently bought a nice AP1 with under 100k for $7500. It needed a tensioner and the seller thought it was the motor. I drove it around a couple weeks ago and remembered what I like and don't like about them.
Chassis is great. Handles awesome. Feels very well put together. I like the interior. He is a mechanic and mentioned the top issues and seat theft but said he hasn't seen any real common issues.
I kept getting lost in the shifter gates (3 - 5 mostly) but I think that comes easier with use. I find them miserable to drive around town. The motor feels like it has no power until you hit Vtec. Once in Vtec and keeping it in Vtec it is quick but feels gutless everywhere else. Seats are apparently theft fodder and tops wear out.
NC:
The NC's Ive drove also have a nice interior and feel well built. I like them better around town but feel like they run out of breath up high to me similar to NA and NB's. Think of a nicer version of your current Miata.
Swank Force One wrote: I don't really think they have any common problems.
Every common S2000 problem is induced by the previous owner.
It does have a tiny, less than 2" tear, on the rear passenger side above the rear mos part of the passenger window, if that makes sense.
Seems having the top replaced is about a $1700 proposition. It's small enough that a good patch should take care of it for a year or two. Right?
I can get the car around $15k
I patched the top on my MSM pretty easily a year and a half ago, and it's held up since then. Probably about a 1" tear.
$15k sounds fun.... what year?
common problem - POs.
Swank Force One wrote: I patched the top on my MSM pretty easily a year and a half ago, and it's held up since then. Probably about a 1" tear. $15k sounds fun.... what year?
How'd you do it?
mtn wrote:Swank Force One wrote: I patched the top on my MSM pretty easily a year and a half ago, and it's held up since then. Probably about a 1" tear. $15k sounds fun.... what year?How'd you do it?
Trip to the local boat top shop for some similar vinyl and some VLC adhesive. (NASTY stuff.)
Mine was small enough i just patched it from the inside and you can't tell it's there from the outside unless you're REALLY looking. If i cared more i could have filled in the small, now surface, crack with filler available at most parts stores. But i didn't, so i didn't.
I got some of that VLC adhesive on my hands and i was still picking away at it a week and a half later. One of my shirts is also permanently ruined from it.
I could probably grab the patch from the inside and pull on it, and the top would rip somewhere else before the patch would think about coming off.
I have owned a 2006 since brand new and have had a 2000 for a few months as well. They are very very reliable cars, but I would seriously consider a 2006+ car mostly for the computer.
2000-2002 AP1s have plastic rear window (you need a new frame to properly change to a glass window on a factory top) 2003 AP1 has glass rear window 2004-2005 AP2 will get you the new headlights/tail lights, 2.2 engine, 17" wheels 2006+ will get you the new ECU with DBW, traction control (very intrusive but can be fully disabled) and new seats.
The 2006+ can be tuned with a Hondata flashpro, this will transform the car and its extremely easy to do and undo. Previous years would use Hondata Kpro which is a pain to install or AEM. The 2006+ also has different seats, they are much more comfortable and much better quality leather. The passenger airbag is also activated only when the seat is occupied. It also has four extra speakers on the rollhoops.
Both cars I had (I still have the 2006 which I am in the process of getting ready to sell :D) where outfitted with a Kraftwerks supercharger. The 2006 with Flashpro and the 2000 with an AEM ecu. The 2000 had 200k miles when supercharged and put down 380 rwhp ... it was daily driven and the engine was still going strong. The engines are tough.
For the problems, most were mentioned here:
I changed the soft top on mine myself. It was $800 or so from Honda and I did the work in one day, its a pain but doable.
Ohh, cupholders the AP2s have two while the AP1 one .... they are not big anyways.
I will think of anything else that you should know. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
J
BTW, if you post on s2ki.com looking for a piece of top, I am sure you can find some. When I replaced my old top, I kept the old one to cut up and give away to people that needed pieces. You were also able to buy a piece from Honda at some point, but I am not sure that is still an option.
Also regarding the hardtop, its worth every penny. It fits like a glove and seems lighter and 10x better than the Miata one. Its aluminum. I bought mine new from Honda and it came pre-painted and ready to install, $2600 back then.
The AP2s have a very heavy flywheel (#26) and a clutch delay valve. I believe this is in order to spare the differential when shifting. If you feel the clutch slips, it could very well be that. Most people remove the valve.
J
It's a 2006, he is going to patch the top and clean up the wear on the bloated then I'll probably go look at it tomorrow morning.
$15k, 75k miles on a 2006 seems almost scary good.
If the car is in good shape, I would say you are getting a GREAT deal on that car.
Also, regarding the oil consumption. My 2006 did it up until 10k miles or so, not much but maybe 1 quart every 6k miles. It dissapeared all of a sudden.
Gas mileage, I usually got 26 mpg no matter what. I drove to California from Florida and I saw 32 mpg with the supercharger. On the other hand, you can see as low as single digits on the track.
J
Sounds like a good deal. Most of the stuff was covered and any big problems were limited to the pre2006 cars.
Just be prepared for every Honda kid in sight wanting to race you. I can't drive mine across town without getting revved on by every crapcan that passes by lol.
Greg Voth wrote: I find them miserable to drive around town. The motor feels like it has no power until you hit Vtec. Once in Vtec and keeping it in Vtec it is quick but feels gutless everywhere else. Seats are apparently theft fodder and tops wear out. NC: The NC's Ive drove also have a nice interior and feel well built. I like them better around town but feel like they run out of breath up high to me similar to NA and NB's. Think of a nicer version of your current Miata.
If you thought the S had no power down low then you didn't like the Miata. Put them side by side and in every low rpm test you can name the S will be equal to or faster than the Miata. Once Vtec hits the Miata is history. So what you were feeling was the comparison between the VTEC rush. Yes Vtec makes off Vtec feel slow, but it's not, it's just the difference between the 2 states.
And if you thought the Miata ran out of breath up high then you want the S.
And 2002 is when they got the glass in the soft top. I waited till the 02s came out to buy mine just for that reason.
I'd forgotten about the delay valve on the AP2s, but it's a quick operation to remove it.
No mention of the infamous air pump yet? It's a piece of emissions equipment that fails fairly often and costs a fortune to replace.
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