daydreaming What Car? RX-8 vs FB RX-7

So I'm daydreaming/ window shopping FB RX-7s and it seems like a decent driver FB (84-85) is now in the same price range as a decent early RX-8.

I had an '85 RX-7 in '05-06 when they were probably at the bottom of their depreciation curve after pretty much obsessing over them all through high school.

Did some basic maintenance on it, barely drove it, and sold it when I needed to pay tuition more than I needed a second car in my parents barn half an hour away.

I think I don't want an SA mainly because of the interior. The FB interior is just right for my nostalgia.

FCs do nothing for me and FDs are well out of my price range.

Which brings us to RX-8s. 

They're 20 yrs newer but in the same price range today.

Based on everything I've heard about them since they came out the Renesis is way less durable than the 12a.

But the chassis is modern. Airbags. Back seats for 2 of the kids. 

I have no motorsports aspirations for either one so that's not a factor.

Would an RX-8 scratch my nostalgic rotary itch?

Does it feel like a small car with direct feedback?

Does it have the redline buzzer like a carbed 12a?

Would it lose compression and need a new engine while a theoretical 12a FB just kept on hmmmming and laughing in oil-control ring smoke on high rpm shifts? 

Anybody have enough experience with both to comment?

The early rx8 engines are not very reliable.

The fb engine will run poorly alot longer than an rx8 engine will run at all.

The 9k readline is cool and the car generally feels great!

I like the rx8, hate the engine reliability so I swapped a gm v6 in mine.

I vote FB, but the RX-8 is going to be easier to find. 

Keep the FB in nice condition and it'll never be worth less than what you paid for it.

Hold out for a GSL-SE.

I loved my wife's 08 RX-8, absolutely one of my favorite cars to drive of all time. That being said we also sold it before we had any problems and since at the time it was her daily driver it was a bit of a pain to live with every day.

Yeah the argument in favor of the FB is the value is not going to go down. RX8 is probably fully depreciated. I really love the RX8 and yes is has a redline buzzer. I do not love the renesis reliability or lack thereof.

RX-8 plus: Room for kids

RX-8 plus: Easier to find and you're buying on the downslope of the depreciation curve.  They won't go down very much more before they start to go up.  I would definitely consider a Series 2 model with its better engine, better trans, and 4.78 gears.

RX-8 plus: Easy to find parts for.

RX-8 plus:  I have only rode in one, not driven, at an autocross, but the handling felt incredible from the passenger seat.  I also rode in an E30 M3 that day on the same course.  Both were on DOT gumballs.

RX-8 minus: The engine is a dog.  Driving a bridge port 13B for a decade plus has maybe accustomed me to having a lot of midrange oomph, but the side exhaust ports mean the last one I drove felt like my stock 12A.  Which brings to...

RX-8 minus: It's a lot of car.  It's heavy and the wheelbase is long.

RX-8 minus: The side exhaust ports warp the heck out of the side housings and trash the side seals, which makes engine life shorter than the naturally aspirated engines of old.  (Maybe not a big deal if it's a sunny day occasional cruiser)

RX-8 minus: They rust like.. well, like Mazdas.  The last ones I ever saw on the road had significant body rot, like Focus-grade missing the entire rocker panels level of rust.

RX-8 minus: 00s Mazda interior quality.

As a first generation RX-7 enthusiast who has already been priced out of the market of the One True RX-7 (nice SAs are up around $20k now), if I was looking into buying an FB, with no parts-hoard inertia, I'd buy a 944.

Rx8s (S1 anyway) weigh less than 3k.  It's light for a 4 door.  Not light compared to an fb.

Come to the challenge and drive mine!

I had a RX-8 for 9 years. I had a turbo FC for 8 years. The RX-8 was a great car. It's hard to recommend to a regular person, but if you know what you're getting into, I think it's the way to go. I might suggest finding something with a recently replaced engine. Very fun, nimble, great feel, awesome brakes, well packaged/practical. Take a test drive to a round about, but beware, you'll probably be buying it after. ;) 

I really enjoyed the rotary, but it would be awesome if there was a new RX-8 with say the GR Corolla's turbo 3.

The FB and RX-8 are distinctly different enough that I think you'll know which one you'd rather have after driving both. Obviously the RX8 is a modern car, and the FB is vintage at this point. Keep in mind that early RX-7 parts are not as easily sourced as they were in 2006, and some of those parts are no longer cheap. The RX8 shares some chassis stuff with the NC Miata which is helpful. It probably also has an a/c system that doesn't rob you of considerable power to climb hills. I've had my FB for about 17 years now and I still really enjoy it, but I tend to save it for leisure drives in nice weather. I assume whatever decision you make that you have a more normal daily driver as well?

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

 

RX-8 minus: The side exhaust ports warp the heck out of the side housings and trash the side seals, which makes engine life shorter than the naturally aspirated engines of old.  (Maybe not a big deal if it's a sunny day occasional cruiser)

 

Yea, I've always felt that the best RX8s were cars that had the old 13b swapped in.. 

One thing to also keep in mind, a 12a FB with the stock Nikki carb will get respectable gas mileage, mine would do 24 or 25 mpg highway before I swapped the Nikki for a Weber, then it dropped to 18 highway at best. I don't know that you'll ever do much better than 20 with the Renesis.

As a long time fb owner, I'd still advise an s2 rx8 if you are willing to accept the risk on a possible engine replacement. 

Room for kids, great driving car with easier parts availability. Engine character will be similar to a 12a (ha,no torque!) but smoother/crisper. Shop for one outside the salted states.

I bought an RX-8 with a blown engine back in 2018 as a project car. I was wankel-curious so I rebuilt the engine and drove it a few thousand miles before selling it.

What I liked: They're cheap. I bought mine for $800 and was just over $4k all in after the rebuild. At the time I could've bought a nice running one for the same money. There's a surprisingly strong RX-8 community and it was pretty easy to find information and parts. They drive really well and the chassis is excellent. The suicide doors are a cool gimmick and you can fit an adult back there (although I wouldn't recommend it on anything but short trips). 

Why I sold it: It's slow. The fun of revving to 9k wears off quick, it's a big number but it's not exciting. The steering and transmission are mediocre. Constant rotary reliability anxiety. Lots of parts are expensive and my car had a lot of ancillary items showing their age. I was considering spending a few thousand more to get it "up to snuff" but couldn't shake the feeling that an NC miata would be a way better platform that would cost less in the long run. I didn't drive it enough for the gas mileage to be an issue but it is bad. High teens on premium.

^ agree that the power is not high by today's standard, but I'd look at it like a first gen FRS/BRZ with more power up top, less down low, little quicker overall.

The transmission is the same as in the FRS/BRZ. I thought the shifter feel was excellent, but it's a little fragile if abused. The ND shifter feel is the only one I've experienced that is better. The clutch feel is a bit off.

I thought the steering was very good, but not everyone loves it. FRS/BRZs is better. 

How 'bout a K24 swap? Would that wake it up?

Looks like 2500 bucks would cover the basic kit: https://collinsperformancetechnologies.com/products/honda-k-series-to-mazda-rx-8-swap-kit-1

You'd want to run a BMW trans so that's another 500 bucks and a coupla hundred to do the driveshaft.

"nostalgic rotary itch" sounds like you want a carbed rotary.

As a car, FB is old school. Not just the primitive suspension and steering, but like other oldies, the dash is lower, the A-pillar is thinner, and the door is at/below shoulder level.

In reply to j_tso :

I will allow that the steering in my FB feels loads better than the RX-8s that I have driven.  It's nice not having power assist.

(Chris: The stock '81, not the '84.  The '84 doesn't have steering "feel" on the street, it just has steering "effort".  And just to annoy the naysayers, the rack equipped 84 has more steering play than the stock box '81)

Thanks for all the input.

I'll be keeping my eyes out for an RX-8 to test drive locally. It would be the better option for me on most rational levels. 

In the little bits of research I've been doing, I was amazed to note how few RX-8s were sold in the US compared to the first gen RX-7.

37k RX-8s were sold in the US from '05-'12 vs. 370k RX-7s from '78-'85.

I had a series 1 RX-8 and if you were going to get one I would definitely get a series 2. The series 2 gearing changes make it okay for driving around town.

As a road car the RX-8 makes a better race car. It's great fun to wind it out and throw it into corners, but when you aren't doing that it's a gutless wonder that gets terrible gas mileage even if you baby it. I don't think I would ever own one again.

If you're wanting to get something that does both road and track duty well I would opt into a BRZ/FRS instead, but between the two choices I'd probably opt into the FB instead of the RX-8 if it's going to be a project car.

I owned an rx8 and learned to road race in an FB.    The rx8 was super fun with it's crazy redline and was actually a pretty good road and daily car.  Gas mileage on fun drives was atrocious.    The Fb felt sooooo light and would probably fill your nostalgia needs.    
 

I'm with @toconn that the little stuff my rx8 needed led me to sell it before dumping $ in it that I would never see again     

Btw this FB always made me drool when I saw pictures of it.   I think I would happily own something like this. 

In reply to Caprigrip :

on the RX-7 forums it's usually this one that gets posted often

Caprigrip said:

Btw this FB always made me drool when I saw pictures of it.   I think I would happily own something like this. 

When I see that, I think that it's sitting so low that the rear suspension won't want to move because of the geometry issues, so the front suspension will have to be made ultra stiff to compensate.  It probably shakes like a mofo at 65mph unless it has a two piece driveshaft, too.

Even the Group C cars sat higher, and they had significant geometry revisions. 

As others have said it kinda depends on what the end goal for you is because let's be honest they are both going to be projects at the end of the day.

For actual seat time and parts availability the 8 is a better bet but remember end of the day it's more of a GT car (had an S2 for 10 years before buying the house.)

The real sports car itch would be better suited for the SA/FB or FC, draw backs there are more about parts availability, working around 70's & 80's tech, and rust but they are one of the most satisfying cars out there.

IMHO check out NC miata for best of both worlds, the 8 shares many many parts with it and has easier access to power (2.5 swap is fairly easy and common from what I gather.)

It's a Rotary, get both

Side note, when to the track this weekend with my friend to shake down his car for the season. 600hp, ~60 hours on this motor, going into its 4th season of wheel to wheel racing. Rotaries are reliable if you take care of them, and beat the E36 M3 out of them