Defining "cheap" & "fast"

So I was listening to the smoking tire podcast (was bored)  and they were talking about the performance bargin of the century.   The c8 Corvette.     No doubt it is a bargin compare to lambos but I dont like the definition of cheap.  80 thousand dollars is not cheap.  

Similarly I was watching a review of a vw golf R.  And the review said it only has 290hp.  

ONLY 290 there was a time were a v8 couldn't make that. 

When did a zero to 60 time of 6 seconds become slow?  My dad's f150 will hall its massive behind in that short of a time.

Its ridiculous. 

I think we need to make some guidelines on what's fast and what's cheap.. 

I just wanted to rant a bit.  Thanks for tolerating me.

It's all relative.

For some people, 9 second cars are slow.

Yes, it's all relative.  Relative to so many things...personal opinion, personal finance, era, etc... 

As an example, my '94 Mustang GT was fast for its' day.  Yet a modern Accord would absolutely smoke it.  It's all relative.

"Bargain" doesn't mean "cheap." A million dollar house for $800k is a bargain but it isn't cheap. 
 

Todays fast car will be tomorrow's slow car that's just how it's always been. You can't say today "0-60 in 4 is fast and always will be."

It also relates to personal experience and access (budget).

If it's faster than 7 or 8 seconds to sixty, or capable of a quarter in the 14s, it's going to feel fast to me. 

My kids are always asking me if this or that amount of money is "a lot" and I keep telling them:  It depends on what we're talking about.  $80k would be terribly expensive for a pencil, but if you were offering to sell me a standard gold bullion bar for $80k, I'd beg, borrow, or steal whatever I could to close that deal. 

The problem with a guideline for "cheap" and "fast" is that those are purely comparative terms that have no inherent meaning until you have at least two things to describe. 

Definition: the nelson clan.

Cheap has to be compared to the income of the observer and fast is all in the seat-of-the-pants of the occupant/driver.

TrulySpooky said:

I think we need to make some guidelines on what's fast and what's cheap.. 

Uh, me.

Thanks for coming to my TEDx talk

What discipline do you want to make the metric for this fast and cheap?

I personally believe 8's for $8k, or 8f8 in sloppy mechanics speak, is cheap and fast. I know people that have spent 4 times that just to run 11's. Will it handle at an autox or track day nope, but I don't expect to.

The goalposts move over time, but I'll plant a flag.  To me, anything that will do 0-60 in under 5 seconds is fast.  Anything under $10k is cheap.  I don't own anything that meets both of those criteria.

I think that question has already been answered, i'll wager you can't get any faster for much cheaper than the Nelsons.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/millennial-falcon-meet-calvin-nelson-and-his-stude/

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/rise-sunbird-unexpected-drag-racing-champion/

Of course, it will take a bit of work..

wae said:

My kids are always asking me if this or that amount of money is "a lot" and I keep telling them:  It depends on what we're talking about.  $80k would be terribly expensive for a pencil, but if you were offering to sell me a standard gold bullion bar for $80k, I'd beg, borrow, or steal whatever I could to close that deal. 

The problem with a guideline for "cheap" and "fast" is that those are purely comparative terms that have no inherent meaning until you have at least two things to describe. 

This, in a good amount of words.

A car that is reasonably fast in the quarter mile would be embarrassingly slow at a rallycross.  The cheapest 9 second car would be really expensive for a kid just out of high school who needs to drive between home and community college and the McJob on a small amount of fuel and minimal maintenance.

My Boxster feels slow (0-60 in about 6.3) but at $8,500 at least it was cheap.

The only car I've driven that feels "too fast" is the 911 turbo, which when driven at the limit is almost quicker than my mind can process or my reflexes can react to.

For a bit of perspective.... I had a meeting with Matt back pre recession when he owned a high end detail shop and the New York Motor Club. I met him & his partner at their shop to discuss opening a detail shop down here in Miami I might possibly manage for them (recession ended that possibility). At the time we met he was daily driving an Aston Martin Vantage which was custom built (by the factory)  for Ralph Lauren. After our meeting he took me out for a ride in it. It had the nicest interior of any car I've ever been in and IIRC colors, materials, etc. were chosen by Ralph, but I digress. Matts dad was friends with Ralph and Ralph had given his dad the car. Meanwhile the NYMC was like a high end country club for exotic car owners with an expensive membership dues and what many would consider outrageously expensive event fees.

Most of us don't live in that world. As Klayfish mentioned fast & cheap is relative.

Cheap is something I can buy. Fast is when I soil myself. 

\

1G DSM is cheap and fast.  You didn't say reliable.  

GRM has a definitive answer to what is fast and cheap.  $2000 is cheap.  10-second 1/4 mile is fast.  I agree with this.   

SCCA F500; 0-60 in 3.2 to 3.5 seconds, low 12 second 1/4 mile, 140mph top speed, capable of FTD and lap times faster than any car costing less than 150K. Mine set me back $4500. 

Relative is the key. I now have a sub 4 sec 0-60 dd.  All of a sudden all my other cars feel slow.

Totally depends on your frame of reference for cheap and fast. After owning stuff that will do 9s in the quarter frankly I am not the person to ask about fast. The only time I am really impressed with speeds is track cars. 

Drive a 125cc shifter kart regularly.  Then everything else is slow.  That keeps it simple.

For a bit of perspective.... I had a meeting with Matt back pre recession when he owned a high end detail shop and the New York Motor Club. I met him & his partner at their shop to discuss opening a detail shop down here in Miami I might possibly manage for them (recession ended that possibility). At the time we met he was daily driving an Aston Martin Vantage which was custom built (by the factory)  for Ralph Lauren. After our meeting he took me out for a ride in it. It had the nicest interior of any car I've ever been in and IIRC colors, materials, etc. were chosen by Ralph, but I digress. Matts dad was friends with Ralph and Ralph had given his dad the car. Meanwhile the NYMC was like a high end country club for exotic car owners with an expensive membership dues and what many would consider outrageously expensive event fees.

Most of us don't live in that world.

I was worried you weren't going to draw any connections until you got to that last sentence. Matt Farah is like a lot of other people who play with very expensive things. He was born most of the way there.  He doesn't talk about his dad much on the internet, that I've seen. Go figure.

In reply to nderwater :

Lol to me that is both fast and expensive.  I think 7.5 0-60 is the not annoyingly slow mark, idk what exactly I would call fast though.