Dirt Cheap Rally - A NEW Way To Thrash On $500 Race Cars

Ok, so. wow. Yes, the costs are comperable to LeMons or Chump, except there's no hidden fees. $900 is it, no matter what. No crew fees, no extra driver fees, no license fees, no transponder fees...on and on. It's just $900. Plus we only require three drivers, so if you can't talk that fourth horribly broke friend into parting with his beer money to go racing, you're still ok.

The 18 year old car rule is for a simple reason - there are some mid-90's through early 2000 cars that are really $500 cars, but the technology advancement in that time made even the worst cars faster, more reliable and much easier to win with than the earlier stuff. There's been a proliferation of those cars in LeMons/Chump and they've been winning easily. It makes the true heaps of racing non-competitive and basically morally demeaning to those that really want to race horrid pieces of 80's iron. I want an 89 Chrysler New Yorker to win a race, damnit!

Having said that, waivers may ALWAYS be granted by the powers that be. Does the 95 taurus maintain the vulcan 3.0l and four speed slushbox? Then maybe....that's a pretty horrible car. Got a duratec under the hood, or a MTX75 trans? Nope. There's no dummies here :)

Kreb - Reno or bust. Also, working actively with Willow Springs. If you can't travel that far, you're not dedicated enough!

Hey, all you 'East Coast' guys. You realize the east cost is HUGE and also weirdly populated, right? If you're serious about spreading this east, send me an email with your location, the support your area has, and how you're willing to support us. I'm all for moving east, if there's good reason. Also: this is a GREAT way to get yourself free racing with us. You scratch my back etc etc.

Actively looking into summit point, thanks everyone!

Oh yeah, 4 speed slushbox with a half dead torque converter, Vulcan POS that has 1 dead valve cover gasket, i'm tellin' ya. I still drive it to work. Though the car next to it (in this case an 88 Mazda Mx6 Turbo I paid 400$ for) would probably be better suited.

Willow springs eh? That's only like 1.5 hrs away...

If you decide to expand to the New England area you may want to get in touch with the organizers of the New England Forest Rally (newenglandforestrally.com). Rally America and Max Attack 2WD Rally both consider NEFR to be one of, if not the, best organized rally events in the country. I think a $500 class would be welcome, since MaxAttack brings in a lot of grassroots rally teams (last year included an AW11 MR2, Bill Caswell and his E30, and a Jeep Comanche).

Kreb- Reno isn't far for an event like this. I just went up there for a RallyX and that was for 5 total minutes of racing time. This will be hours! :D

East cost push lol

VIR has a perfectly good rally course but they NEVER host events on it.....go figure

In addition to the Summit Point idea (which I like), they hold the Rally America Euro-style RallyCross events at NJMP so that may well be a suitable venue.

Here's what Summit has in terms of dirt tracks for their unimproved road training and SCCA RallyX events:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=summit+point+motorsports+park,+wv&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=53.345014,73.564453&ie=UTF8&hq=summit+point+motorsports+park,+wv&ll=39.240048,-77.961581&spn=0.01288,0.026135&t=h&z=16

It's horribly dusty Virginia clay and when it gets wet (even with the water truck) it becomes thick nasty sticky paste that even AWD cars with rally tires have trouble with.

When I heard about this from some friends, I immediately thought it sounded great...right up my alley! Then I read the rules. Three BIG turnoffs when I read the rules:

1. No AWD.
2. Must be 18 years old.
3. Spec tires are a great plan, but why those horrible "high performance" tires for mixed surfaces? Seems likely to blow beads on bad ruts and of course offers less-than-desired traction compared to a cheaper all season tire or snow tire.

Seems like keeping old, 2wd cars on crummy tires is basically a way to be sure to keep speeds way, way low. Safe? Sure. Fun? Not nearly as much. This sounds like a great place to take many Chump/LeMons cars to play wheel to wheel in the dirt. For those who were going to build a car specifically for this series, well, that's not what you would have WANTED to build. Since Erik started his crap can life racing with us in our (AWD,<18 year old) Impreza wagon, he knows these cars can and do exist as crap can racers...why not let them play?

Bryce

In reply to Nashco:

Hey Bryce! So, in answer to your concerns:

Driver minimum age is 15. Minors (i.e. those under 18) must have an adult present, and that's simply a liability issue.

The no AWD rule has been the second most contended rule, and I understand people's dismay. This is 'rally', and people want their AWD so they can do their best. Well, first of all, everyone is limited by this so it's not like it puts anyone at a disadvantage (except those teams with existing AWD cars, I suppose). This no AWD is an issue of existing vehicle population. <1% of existing $500 race cars are AWD, but if they were allowed they would simply dominate this race making the other 99% obsolete and require new car builds for the majority of teams that want to compete. The goal is let all these existing teams have a new way to enjoy their $500 cars, not cause more expense. In addition, if someone were building a new vehicle it would seriously limit their options for vehicle choice if they wanted a 'winner'. Finally, it would make for one boring paddock, and essentially a spec subaru/dsm/jeep race. I realize most people who want only the best option in a race dislike this idea, and pure rallyists dislike it, but I really did think it through and decide it was in the 'greater good' of an open, accessible race series.

I'm glad you like the idea of spec tire. This has been the most contentious issue, to my surprise. The answer is simple: I really hate that people who want to compete in lemons/chump feel they 'have' to go buy that expensive fast wearing tire even though they don't really want to shell out the cash race after race. I picked the tire I did based purely on personal experience and cost - I've used it for my daily drivers forever, and I've raced on it in two different occasions, and they're GREAT tires for the cost. As to cost, they're cheap. that's another advantage, again trying to limit everyone expenses.

You've also hit on an over-arching theme I did try to incorporate - limiting traction. There is only one reason for this - six hours of multiple cars racing on the same surface is going to tear it up, and the best way to limit that is to make sure the cars can't 'dig' it all up. If these measures weren't taken, this racing simply wouldn't be possible.

In addition, it levels the playing field in a really great way, so that pure HP and cheaty suspension bits can't dominate. With everyone in 2WD on the same all season tire, it will come down to how well you prepared your car, and then how well you can drive. There simply won't be a case of mash the throttle, crank the steering wheel, and see who's got the better car. There's always some of that, but this will be a mix of drivers skill and vehicle capabilities.

I realize people won't love every bit of the rules, but it has all been thought out and put together with a cohesive goal in mind - to create an overall budget-limited, team oriented, fun driving experience that can't be had elsewhere. People who desire all out speed or the best of the best in their particular vehicular sport need to look elsewhere - this is supposed to be simple, accessible fun :)

I hope to see you out there Bryce, I know you can build a car and this kind of thing is right up your alley. Grab Doug and come have fun. Heck, convert the subie to RWD and it can play too!

In reply to DirtCheapRally:

I'm pretty sure he meant "The car must be 18 years old."

Regarding the tire choice, have you raced it on dirt/grass/gravel?

In reply to Beers:

ah, yeah. same idea. new cars, even $500 versions, are just so much better/more reliable/easily more powerful. All about keeping cheating out, cost down, competition close.

I haven't aggressively raced the tires on dirt, but I have had high-speed offs with them in road racing, and on my daily I've been less than nice in rough conditions and they have had 0 issues. I'm open to conversations on the tire, but I'm not open to opening it up to rally tires, M/T tires, All Terrain tires etc. If experience shows they simply don't hold up to the abuse at the first event, I'll readily change the rules. Outside abuse and stupidity though, I don't see that happening.

Here in South Cackalacke, there's probably a dearth of really good rallycross venues. Dammit. But I have two possibilities: first, the Sandhills State Forest. They host the Sandblast Rally each year http://www.sandblastrally.com/2011/ so they are already familiar with what's needed and can probably carve out a small rallycross course. It's pretty much all white sand, though. Second, there is a farm here which hosts the Big Buck GNCC (Grand National Cross Country) motorcycle race each year. http://www.bigbuckracing.com/ I have run it several times and there's all kinds of good terrain. It's in a town called Cross Anchor. That one has good ol' black dirt and clay. If it rains, some parts can get really snotty but hey that adds to the fun! You would probably want to cut out the ditch jump, though:

Ok guys, nothing set yet but I contacted Summit Point, Team Oneil, VIR, NJMP, Gravity Park, and Bark River and opened the conversation about 2012. Any other recommendations? This is the BEST way to find out the right places to go!

Thanks!

EDIT: Add Sandblast Rally to that list

Any volunteer positions at the race in redmond?

I would be interested in East Coast/Mid-Atlantic events too.
Also, I read the rules and have $.02 to add. I can think of a number of reasons why the spec tires mentioned would be positivly awfull in on certain soil types, especially after several hours of racing X number of cars around the same circiut. I understand the desire to keep cost & speeds down, but I can't see thoses tires going anywhere in East-Coast mud or sand. Second, I can also understand the logic of excluding AWD cars, but I think there could be a place for some N/A small displacement AWDs, I've seen 2wd cars out power and out manuver AWDs in off road conditions more than once. My weapon of choice would be an old SAAB c900, and wouldn't fear any N/A subaru or DSM.

EVENT UPDATE: Our first event is now going to be held at Portland International Raceway August 27-28. The track in Redmond was facing some challenges so we decided not to go there, and PIR stepped up and offered us a cool spot to play. Check out the event details at www.dirtcheaprally.com/events. We're also featured on the PIR home page, which I find wildly cool :)

Hope to see some of you out there.

I like the concept, and the rules, and the logic behind them.

Could this racing series complete the fabled "quadfecta of crap" which is even more legendary than JThw8's "trifecta of crap"?

DirtCheapRally wrote: essentially a spec subaru/dsm/jeep race.

I almost spit out my lunch. I love that Jeeps (really XJs) are now being seen as race cars! lol

I always held that view and wondered why more people didnt agree with me. At least on this forum, you have broken down barriers for jeep lovers. Good job.

One rule looked a little odd.

2.3 As-raced weight may not exceed 3000 lbs.

That might keep out the New Yorker you wanted to see win. Is there really an advantage here to an overweight car?

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

I don't think it's the advantage so much as a safety thing with cars on mixed surfaces with greatly differing mass.

Bryce

MadScientistMatt wrote: One rule looked a little odd.

2.3 As-raced weight may not exceed 3000 lbs.

That might keep out the New Yorker you wanted to see win. Is there really an advantage here to an overweight car?

Ima need to let the Taurus rust some more then, clearly.

I agree about the weight limit. Its a bit low imo, excluding a lot of vehicles. I think if you moved it up to 3400 or 3500 you wouldnt be excluding much of anything at all.

In reply to Vigo:

The weight limit was put that low on the advice of John Wood out at Reno-Fernely Raceway. He hosts military training off-road at the course, and they use Crown Vic/Caprice platforms in addition to smaller/lighter cars. His experience was that the heavier cars caused washboard much, much quicker. It made sense to me to keep the cars light and the track damage minimal, with the added benefit (as Bryce noted) of avoiding massive mass differences in any collisions.

Anyway, I was thinking more mid-80's K-car New Yorker, the ones that looked like an econobox and had the turbo 2.2l. There was absolutely nothing good about this car, therefore it is perfect :)

I've often wanted to do an enduro at our "Back 40 Racing" activities (which are unorganized, run-what-ya-brung, melees) but there probably just isn't enough interest.

Sounds like a lot of fun but I'm too far in the middle coast of Missouri to participate.

About the "no awd" rule. One option would be to just add a class when the time is right (IE, when participation levels grow).

You could look to circle track for tire rules. A lot of the "bomber" classes just outlaw M&S tires and I've even seen them specify nothing lower profile than "70 series" aspect ratio. Just something to think about if the spec tire becomes too big a thorn in your side.

My experience is that lightweight import junkers will run all day long (literally) flat out on a rallycross type course. Big honkin taxicab b-bodies and pantherfords will go about 4 minutes and then puke their overflow tanks. Not that that couldn't be fixed...but the lightweight cars rule is good from that angle and hopefully the safety angle (though we've never rolled over a big car...yet...and the big cars have good energy absorbing capabilities). Keeping the weight disparity down is probably a great plan.

I've actually put a lot of thought into this kind of thing. If you ever want to discuss stuff, I'm a good guy to bounce ideas off of and such, just get in touch and we can talk.

Clem