Does anyone here have first hand experience towing with a Buick Roadmaster wagon?

SWMBO wants to take a road trip in the near future that will involve camping and a motorhome or travel trailer.

I'm leaning towards travel trailer at this point, but I don't currently own a tow vehicle. I don't care much for SUVs, I don't think a pick up would have enough interior space or comfort for this trip (at least not the ones in my budget), and if I used a van, I might as well just get a class B or B+ motorhome. (Which may not be a bad idea, but that's not where this plan is going right now).

I'd like to buy, or possibly rent, a 15' to 20' trailer, use it for the trip, then unload it. It would be nice to have a vehicle that could also tow a car trailer when needed too.

I know that Roadmaster wagons with the tow package can pull up to 7k lbs with a weight distributing hitch, I doubt that I would need that much capacity, but its good to have, and that also puts its towing capacity in the range of many SUVs and trucks.

So, do they really get the job done, or are they only good tow rigs on paper?

How is their reliability and serviceability? I'm not generally a GM fan, but I recognize that some of their products are better than others, and some are quite good. What category do the Roadmasters fit in?

I know that there were also Chevy and Olds wagons on the same platform, but my understanding is that they were only available with the 305 engine, and had much lower tow ratings, is that correct?

Thanks. HappyAndy.

I'm not sure about the wagons, but there are places that rent travel trailers AND trucks. That'd be a brand new crew cab. Probably more economical/easier than buying a car.

In reply to bigev007: I'll look into that, but I suspect that the cost would be prohibitive. I've looked into motorhome rentals before and found that the cost was higher than I would like, and the mileage restrictions made it pointless for long trips.

very interested in seeing the results to this...

A little more info on your trailer might be important.

If you are going to rent one, it won't be a problem.

If you are going to buy one, and it is low budget, the weight might grow to more than you realize.

My 23' camper is 7800 lbs. dry.

But it is an older model- wood frame, steel chassis. This is what you may find if you are shopping in the under $3K price range.

You can get a similar sized one that is newer (and therefore higher priced) that will only weigh about 3500 lbs.

That is a huge difference.

What vintage Roadmaster are you thinking about? They've been making them since 1936.

I've towed with one that was '70's vintage. It was a pretty good tow vehicle. But so were all other '70's vintage wagons.

YMMV on newer ones. Again, like the camper, the ratings change dramatically with the age.

In reply to SVreX: The trailers that I've been looking at are models labeled as "light weight" . For example, there was a 23'er that was 4600 lbs empty. I'm assuming that similarly constructed 15' to 20' models would be under 5k lbs all loaded and ready to travel.

I'm looking at mid-ninties Roadmasters, preferably 96, so that it will have OBD2.

Got it.

Good plan. The laminated construction "lite weight" or "ultra-lites" are much easier to tow. If I was in the market for a camper, that's what i would buy. If you can swing the price, i recommend a post 2006 model. Construction improved drastically industry wide at that point.

Can't help you on the Roadmaster. I've only driven older ones.

I've never done the actual towing but i've driven stock ones, worked on the engines, rebuilt the transmissions, and done a lot of towing with even less 'suitable' tow vehicles!

Have said all that, i would A: put stiffer rear springs in it. B: put stiffer sidewall tires on it (preferably larger rim size so you can go to a lower profile), and C: put a big trans cooler on it and try not to let it upshift or downshift under power. What i mean by that is if you know you will need to downshift, do it with the shifter at light throttle and then give it the beans. If you know it will upshift, let off the gas to let it upshift and then get back in it.

Given those few things i personally would be completely comfortable doing what you're talking about.

94-96 will have the option for the LT1 350, that's the one you want. The smaller 4.3 V8 (baby LT1)was standard and looks the same from the outside. Yes on the big trans cooler and proper hitch. Car is capable, but remember it's 20+ years old. Fresh brakes and shocks will be needed,check the rear springs and possibly upgrade. Parts are cheap and these cars are easy to work on. Get good tires and trailer brakes. Remember, it's not just the weight of the trailer, but the drag created by how much taller it is than the car. Keep your speeds down and it saves alot on the equipment. When towing with a 4 speed auto, some folks hold it to 3rd gear and 55mph.

Factor the rental again. My buddy owns a 2003 Trailblazer EXT V8 and has a decent size trailer that nets him 7 mpg towing from Chicago to California and back.

I keep looking for that low cost VW camper ( along with 10,000 other guys looking too).

In reply to Gearheadotaku & Vigo: Good information. I would specifically be shopping for a tow package equipped Roadmaster. Would it still need a trans cooler upgrade if it has the tow package?

Of course I would give the car a thorough servicing and a good shake down before taking it out on a cross country towing adventure. It would not be my first time traveling cross country in old iron.

RE: Tires, are towing appropriate tires available in passenger car tires? I hadn't thought about that. I would not plan on changing rim size unless a super cheap set falls in my lap, but I would want to use the best available tires for the job that will fit the rims it has.

Don't worry if it has a trailer pkg from the factory, you'll want to upgrade beyond that stuff anyhow. You could switch to a "LT" rated tire, but that may be overkill. Just make sure you're using something that meets or exceeds the OE tire. Look for the sticker on the car for the weight rating.

the 94-96 roadmonster and caprice wagons all have LT1 - no 4.3 wagons.

all 91 wagons are 305, 92-93 roadmonsters have 350's. my dad tows with a 350 powered 93 factory tow pack car. what the tbi lacks in HP versus the LT1, the tow package makes up for in gearing. TBI tow pack cars have 3.23, LT1 tow pack cars have 2.93.

i have towed with both sedans and wagons. i pulled a 78 el camino on a 2,000lb flatbed car hauler with my 91 305 sedan caprice, and it did fine. the biggest thing is keeping the tongue weight down, as you've got lots of rear overhang with the wagon, and a trailer with too much tongue weight is going to push down on the car significantly. you could add bags inside the rear springs to help keep things level.

the wagons have the same 12" front brakes as sedans but have giant rear drums. i'd still opt for a trailer with brakes and a controller no matter what you pick. IMHO the biggest thing is a trans cooler(tow package car has one) and not towing in overdrive with big loads. some guys roll the dice and do it, but ever since i burned up the 3-4 clutch pack in my 700r4 towing an empty car hauler on a long flat highway trip, i gave up and leave it in 3.

it's a tow rig on paper, and even better in reality, not the other way around.

Just out of curiosity. If "pickups" are ok but cramped for interior space, why not consider a mid '90s suburban? I know it's an suv but it's just a big honkin tow rig with silly amounts of interior space and all the capability you're looking for built in from the factory. Easy button compared with bringing a buick up to speed to do the same job.

I think the Roadmaster would be capable, but I would consider air springs for the rear. I know a couple people who have put them on their Suburbans and it does make a difference.

you talking good ol' Gabriel skyjacker types? I've been thinking of putting those on my Sploder next time around to help on tongue weight support.

I guess I can say yes to the firsthand experience, kind of. Mine is an '89 with a 350 and a manual, but I would think an LT1 car with the 4l60e wouldn't be too different. The nice thing about the factory tow package cars was that they had an aux trans cooler and a shorter rear end in them. Most, but not all, also got a limited slip diff. Otherwise, the tow pack didn't get you much. I would definitely add a trans cooler, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. My '89 weighs almost 1000 lbs less than the later ones unloaded, but was still rated to tow 7800 lbs with load levelers, so it's in the same ballpark. Same frame, brakes, etc as well. I've towed my E30 with it, which was probably 5000 lbs with the trailer and some other stuff, and it did fine. I left it in 4th on the highway (5 speed). Because of the long rear overhang, you do have to pay attention to the weight distribution on the trailer more than you would with a truck.

If you're worried about rear stiffness, get a set of C10/C20 pickup rear springs. they had coils in the rear from 1968-1971 or something like that, and you can get the coils new from Moog for not too much money. Stock rear rate is something like 210 lbs/in on wagons, and the C10 springs are progressive and rated at 406 lb/in. It will lower the static height by a bit though; mine is about 1.5" lower than stock. Ride quality is actually better, imo, because it doesn't float as much, and it doesn't sag much either. Hotchkis shocks will also help with control when towing. Stock brakes have been fine for me, just make sure they're in good condition. Class III/IV hitches are almost impossible to find if the car didn't come with it, but you can actually have the hitch custom made by uhaul - they still have the plans. Mine came to $288 shipped for whatever that's worth, and if you need a part number, I might be able to find it. it's a serious hitch with a frame that goes forward to the rear axle.

ultraclyde wrote: you talking good ol' Gabriel skyjacker types? I've been thinking of putting those on my Sploder next time around to help on tongue weight support.

That's the cheaper route and a viable option, but I'm talking about the helpers that fit in the springs. It really makes a difference in towing.

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6854

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6002

Get yourself an onboard compressor and you're good to go.

As someone who full-timed in an RV and grew up as an RVer, I'll add my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

Never use weight to determine how much travel trailer you can tow. These days you can get a 30' ultra light with a 7000 lb GVW. And you will die. You are towing a billboard. Every breeze, truck that passes, or small correction with a steering wheel is potentially awful. You need stiff rubber on the road, a stout frame, and excellent sway controls. For a car with squishy passenger tires, keep it about 20' or less regardless of weight.

I would rather gently tow 10,000 lbs worth of flatbed than 5000 lbs of travel trailer with a B-body wagon.

Also... most of the wagons came with 8.5" rears. They are up to the task with slightly larger axle bearings. I do however currently have a 95 Caprice wagon sitting on a trailer that was LT1, 5x5 wheel pattern, but its a 7.5" rear. Not good for weight capacity. Double check which one you get.

All of them will probably be 2.73 gears. Keep the trans out of OD or you will fry it in short order. Its the shifting in/out that causes slipping under heavy loads. Just leave it in D.

I'll be honest; B-bodies seem to have all the right marks for a good tow rig, but my 96 Impala SS didn't do so well with a 3500 lb boat. It was fine as far as cross winds, acceleration, general handling, but I really needed trailer brakes. I can't imagine the white knuckles with a 20' TT on general handling and winds.

It also depends on how far you're going. Cross country? Half-ton truck minimum. Across town or 20 miles? I'd risk that with a bigger trailer. I used my 73 Caprice wagon (same frame and suspension basically) to tow 10k about 30 miles. It just took diligence and good trailer brakes.

curtis73 wrote: I would rather gently tow 10,000 lbs worth of flatbed than 5000 lbs of travel trailer with a B-body wagon. Also... most of the wagons came with 8.5" rears. They are up to the task with slightly larger axle bearings. I do however currently have a 95 Caprice wagon sitting on a trailer that was LT1, 5x5 wheel pattern, but its a 7.5" rear. Not good for weight capacity. Double check which one you get. All of them will probably be 2.73 gears. Keep the trans out of OD or you will fry it in short order. Its the shifting in/out that causes slipping under heavy loads. Just leave it in D.

I missed the part about it being an enclosed trailer... a 20' enclosed trailer would be a little scary, I think.

I've never heard of a later wagon having a 7.5 in it; that's...interesting. I know the rare 2.46 cars had that rear end; maybe the 2.73 cars did too? The most common out of all the wagons I've seen has been the 2.93 8.5". tow pack was a 3.08 in the early wagons, at least. 9c1 and some other cars had a 3.23 factory, most of the time, but it seems GM wasn't very consistent. Best way to tell is to check the RPO code sticker, which is usually on the flip-up rear seat, though I've seen some on the radiator support and one in the glove box too.

Note that wagon and sedan axles don't interchange; the wagon is wider and the control arm points and spring perches are also in a different place.

In reply to gearheadE30:

Yeah, when I bought this wagon as a parts car, I was excited to snag the wagon rear to sell for a couple hundred bucks. Imagine my surprise when I saw it was a 7.5"

I have probably honestly logged 400k miles of towing heavy stuff in my life; TTs, 5ers, goosenecks, flatbeds, motorcoaches with box trailers, etc. Not bragging, just hoping to pass along experience. The difference between weight is almost negligible if you have good brakes and know how to not destroy a transmission. Good comparison; 08 Duramax dually crew cab. I towed 25k with it. Gooseneck 40' flatbed with a large dozer on it. I also towed a 31' travel trailer that was 10k gvw (and I'm sure I was at or near GVW). The travel trailer was so much more a handful than the dozer. Firstly, the gooseneck helps a ton. It places the pivot over the axle so it doesn't have the leverage on the vehicle like a bumper tow. Secondly, it wasn't a billboard. Braking force felt proportional; the TT had small brakes on both axles, the gooseneck had huge brakes on all three axles.

Things that make a tow vehicle good at handling a bumper-pull trailer:
- long wheelbase - stiff sidewall tires with high load capacity for heat stability - more rubber on the road is better than less - ridgid chassis. Towing is a lot like adding power to a vehicle. The extra power is great, but if the frame/unibody can't handle the torque, it will be flexy and scary.

It would not be a requirement, but I would look to see if you can find D-range LT tires in the right diameter. You will really be amazed at how much passenger tires squish left and right with the weight pushing you around. I like the idea of the truck coil springs too. Adjustable shocks might be nice so you can crank them up to tow and soften them a bit for DD use. Air bags would be a bonus, but I don't think we're talking about tongue weights in the crazy range, especially with equalizer bars.

When towing with a 4 speed auto, some folks hold it to 3rd gear and 55mph

In a 4l60, 3rd and 4th gear use the same clutch pack anyway. As Curtis73 said, it's the shifting in and out of overdrive under power that hurts the trans, thus my earlier guidance.

RE: Tires, are towing appropriate tires available in passenger car tires

Yeah. It'd be pretty easy to get a tire that will be comfortably within its load rating with the back half of your vehicle + tongue weight of a light travel trailer. Those wagons use pretty big tires to begin with which makes this easier since larger diameter correlates pretty strongly with more load rating. Also, MOST low-profile car tires have stiffer sidewalls as far as lateral motion then even a 10-ply E-rated 80-series truck tire. My personal concern is mostly with lateral stiffness because that's what adds up to big stability problems when you experience crosswinds/trailer sway.

One thing i find to be pretty informative is to sit in your driver's seat in your driveway and pretend you are going 65mph while someone pushes your hitch ball side to side as hard as they can. Then imagine how much stronger a ~4k lb trailer is than the dude you got pushing on your hitch ball. Tire sidewalls, rear overhang (which is basically leverage for the trailer), and lateral suspension stiffness (im guessing the wagon has a panhard bar which can be rebushed to poly or something) all 'stack up' and can create a lot of side-to-side slop between your hitch ball and your contact patches. I remember doing this to my old 96 Dakota with 75 series tires and a long overhang and being able to get the back end swinging about 6" side to side by hand. The same thing on my 800-lb lighter Dodge Dynasty with 40-series tires, short overhang, and a reinforced panhard bar resulted in a lot less motion, and the tiny Dynasty DID tow better!

there are zero wagons with the 7.5" rear end unless someone jammed a 91ish sedan rear under it. it is possible to flex the outer control arm bushings enough to do so and the spring perches are close enough that the springs sit on them. i've seen one sedan rear in a wagon and one wagon rear in a sedan before.

Vigo wrote: One thing i find to be pretty informative is to sit in your driver's seat in your driveway and pretend you are going 65mph while someone pushes your hitch ball side to side as hard as they can. Then imagine how much stronger a ~4k lb trailer is than the dude you got pushing on your hitch ball.

^^^ This times 1000.

Crawl under there, too, and look at the trailing arms. They are really flimsy. Even installed on the car, you can grab them with your hands and twist them. Cracks are also common in them. At a minimum, I would box them, or fab up some tubular steel arms. Even though its a non-parallel 4-link, a panhard bar does wonders on these B-bodies.

patgizz wrote: there are zero wagons with the 7.5" rear end unless someone jammed a 91ish sedan rear under it. it is possible to flex the outer control arm bushings enough to do so and the spring perches are close enough that the springs sit on them. i've seen one sedan rear in a wagon and one wagon rear in a sedan before.

I used to agree with you, but I've seen a handful. This one is a 7.5" and it only had 80k on it. Could have been replaced, but doubtful. The other thing that gets me is that this 7.5" has the little tabs on it for the optional air lines which doesn't happen unless it was designated for a wagon application. I'll get some pics when I'm near it next time.