So is the takeaway here: Take a look at the parts you're putting on your vehicle, and if you don't feel like doing that either A) Buy parts only from the dealer and/or B) have the dealer repair your vehicle?
So is the takeaway here: Take a look at the parts you're putting on your vehicle, and if you don't feel like doing that either A) Buy parts only from the dealer and/or B) have the dealer repair your vehicle?
I've never seen a ball joint made that way. I that a common style of ball joint?
Yeah all my turbo dodges are similar.
SVreX wrote: Yeah, but the OP already said the Moog part had the same (wrong) bolt. It's not a cheap part problem. It is probably an incorrect spec from the manufacturer (Ford) being released to the after market. I am in no way giving a pass to the parts manufacturer. However, think of it this way... If you hired a professional shop to do the work, they installed the same (wrong) part, and you had an accident because of it, I GUARANTEE you wouldn't want to hear any whining about the parts supplier. You would expect the mechanic to stand by his work. Period. And if there were any lawsuits, you would be suing the MECHANIC, not the parts supplier. It is the responsibility of the mechanic to not install incorrect parts, regardless of what dumbass mistake the parts manufacturer makes.
Part of selling goods is making sure any 'ol knuckle dragger and use it. Without a firm grasp of the way that part works, you'd have to assume the replacement parts are going to work. If you let a "Professional" do the work then they are supposed to have that knowledge.
SVreX wrote: However, think of it this way... If you hired a professional shop to do the work, they installed the same (wrong) part, and you had an accident because of it, I GUARANTEE you wouldn't want to hear any whining about the parts supplier. You would expect the mechanic to stand by his work. Period. And if there were any lawsuits, you would be suing the MECHANIC, not the parts supplier. It is the responsibility of the mechanic to not install incorrect parts, regardless of what dumbass mistake the parts manufacturer makes.
As a former technician I agree 100%. I have refused parts many times, from aftermarket to straight out of the OEM box (they make mistakes too). If you can't look at a wrong part and decide not to use it, you shouldn't be working on cars and should leave it to the professionals.
Quoting from the thread:
"That ball joint DID NOT fail. It is not broken. If it came out of place, the retaining bolt broke, the spindle broke, or the ball joint was never pushed up into place so the bolt could hold in place to begin with. Don't blame the part. Blame whoever installed it. I just helped my son install a similar part on his car, and when I check the installation, he had not gotten the ball joint pushed up into the spindle either."
I saw this same thing posted on Reddit a few days ago. Definitely user error. OP, just accept the blame and move on. You're the mechanic and driver, everything that happens with the car is ultimately your fault.
How hard is it to include the correct hardware? I did the ball joints on the Malibu and thought I was loosing my mind. There are three bolts that hold the ball joint in the control arm and in both joints the included bolts were too thick to go through the holes in the joints. Why include them? At least if there was no hardware in the box I'd know I had to buy some instead of surprising me once I took the car apart.
While I agree the installer takes final responsibility for installing the wrong parts, I think the real issue here might be two-fold.
Like I said on mine, even the right hardware was 'too small' because the knuckle was damaged and the holes were reamed out by loose parts making the holes 'too big'. Hard to notice that the first time the fix is done, but it should be apparent on a test drive listening for clunks.
You're probably right. I may have been a little harsh. Still, though, from looking at OP's thread, the OEM bolt and the aftermarket bolt were very different. Should have been noticed.
rcutclif wrote: While I agree the installer takes final responsibility for installing the wrong parts, I think the real issue here might be two-fold. Like I said on mine, even the right hardware was 'too small' because the knuckle was damaged and the holes were reamed out by loose parts making the holes 'too big'. Hard to notice that the first time the fix is done, but it should be apparent on a test drive listening for clunks.
Umm... That would STILL be the installers responsibility. NOT the parts supplier.
nboyles85737 wrote: hey all, im not here frequently. the part that failed was the retention bolt. it was too small compared to OEM. i think there is a pic in the thread, the cheapo one that didnt hold the joint in place is in the middle, mood which is slightly larger on the right and OEM on left being the largest.)
So... you installed the wrong parts and it failed. Good to know.
The ball joint did not fail, it was installed improperly. The wrong fastener was used. Just because there is a bolt in the box doesn't mean you should use it. of course, you know this now... but a lesson lived is a lesson learned, yeah?
I used to buy cheap parts. After I had a brake pad seperate on me at high speed, I stopped. All was well, but it could have been very bad.
Always buy quality stuff and then double check it before you put it in.
Glad the op is OK, but sometimes we all need to learn the hard way.
Wally wrote: How hard is it to include the correct hardware?
MUCH harder than you realize.
Having worked in a manufacturing environment, getting ALL the specs right on a small piece of hardware is incredibly difficult.
I have replaced many ball joints that were similar, but never a Focus. Honestly, it is very likely I would have made the same mistake, because I've never seen a design that utilized a unique bolt like that.
Since several after market suppliers are making the same mistake, I think it is a proprietary design that Ford didn't make the specs available.
After market suppliers just did what they always do. They supplied a pinch bolt like most of the others. Most of the other designs, a pinch bolt pinches. It doesn't also act as a wedge.
SVreX wrote: Yeah, but the OP already said the Moog part had the same (wrong) bolt. It's not a cheap part problem. It is probably an incorrect spec from the manufacturer (Ford) being released to the after market. I am in no way giving a pass to the parts manufacturer. However, think of it this way... If you hired a professional shop to do the work, they installed the same (wrong) part, and you had an accident because of it, I GUARANTEE you wouldn't want to hear any whining about the parts supplier. You would expect the mechanic to stand by his work. Period. And if there were any lawsuits, you would be suing the MECHANIC, not the parts supplier. It is the responsibility of the mechanic to not install incorrect parts, regardless of what dumbass mistake the parts manufacturer makes.
Moog quality has plummeted in the last few yrs … way too much cheap Chinese made crap … you can still get good stuff from them, but it's become a crap shoot
In reply to wbjones:
Doesn't matter. Part did not fail.
It was the wrong part.
Not sure if you found this or not, but I just ordered two of these: http://www.tascaparts.com/oe-ford/w710904s439
Glad to read this. You learn something quite valuable everyday.
SVreX wrote: In reply to wbjones: Doesn't matter. Part did not fail. It was the wrong part.
that wasn't what I was getting at … just that using Moog as a barometer isn't much good anymore …
and you're right about it probably being Ford's "fault" by speccing the wrong dimensions on the bolt
What was wrong with the old bolt?
I'm the only thing I'm at fault here is that I didn't notice the bolt was the wrong size. Also by not torquing it to the mfg spec. However with this design if the bolt isn't the right size it won't matter how loose or tight it is.
Other than that I made NO mistake in installation. I pushed It all the way up and tightened it.
I apologize that when I buy a part I expect the part to fit properly. The wedge bolt, retention bolt or pinch bolt or whatever you call it was wrong. Lesson learned I accept that.
If you're going to tell me that many of you wouldn't/haven't have made the same mistake in the last then you're lying.
I'm not here to start pissing contest, I did it to warn others of my mistakes and let others know to not follow in my foot steps.
So much for that. Let's piss away!
The post on reddit turned into a bashing me contest. Most of which were douche comments and shiny happy person remarks.
Keep reading the thread, and you'll see another member mention the same problem that he posts every so often.
In reply to ScreaminE:
Thanks man, I did. Learned more than I did when I posted.
Oh hey I know this guy, small world. Now I see why you didn't make it to this months autocross, that's scary man. Hopefully you didn't throw the factory bolt out and can use that with the new ball joint. And I'm sure its been mentioned but cinder blocks are insanely unsafe jack stands man. Even if you aren't under the car its not worth breaking something else if it decides to fracture and crumble.
In reply to Knurled:
Haha yea I'm alive still car relatively undamaged. Thanks
In reply to Lancer007:
No E36 M3, what's up dude XD haha
I use to throw old stuff out, don't anymore because sometimes that old stuff Is useful. Factory bolt is on now. Had to use a hammer to get it in (moog and oem side require it)
Was unaware they were that unsafe. I will be sure to use proper stands next time.
Thanks, yea fear of God was in me. I'll be paying closer attention from now on. Not worth my life.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:
Thanks man, glad you're all safe from whenever that happened too!
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