I'm in the market for a car and am of an age where the Nissan 350-370Z don't really appeal and NB Miatas (the body style I like the best except for the new one) are getting old enough to start needing new engines and become project cars... I'm scared of the Porsche Boxster/Cayman due to the expense of maintenance and the bearing issue.
Anyhow, I think that a BMW sedan may be the answer to my needs but I don't know much at all about the various models. My preference is for a coupe (2door), hardtop, manual (the kind with a clutch pedal) and from say 2002 on? My budget tops out at say $15k.
Can anyone enlighten me as to models and years that fit what I'm looking for?
Thanks!
E46 M3 SMG, then convert it to a manual. An SMG is a manual with a hydraulic pump that operates the shifter and clutch, so the conversion consists of unbolting the hydraulic bits and adding a clutch pedal and a few other things. You don't actually have to take the transmission out, AIUI.
What do you want to do with it? What are your priorities? How many miles a year?
I've driven two e46 M3s so far. Both manual. My only real complaint with them was the controls. The stock shifter wasn't crisp and the accelerator was super light and didn't feel linear, both quite the opposite of my e36. Otherwise I enjoyed driving both cars quite a lot even though one was a quick rip around town and the other had me hitting a few on/off ramps on the interstate.
In the end would never wish a BMW on anybody but that's just because I own one and it love breaking in small finicky ways.
In reply to 02Pilot :
It'll be a daily driver with two or three club track days nothing strenuous. 10-12k per year I suppose.
What about a C5? Or do you need 4 seats? 15k should got you a decent one. If you can stretch the budget a bit more you are in to ZO6 territory.
Then the question is how much speed you want. Rule of thumb: modern BMWs need anywhere between $1500-3000 spent on maintenance per year (assuming labor costs in that figure, less if you do the work yourself obviously). Any deferred maintenance will need to be paid for. If it were me, I'd look for a really good (meaning lots of records) E46 or E90 non-M around $10k and keep the rest for maintenance, track expenses, and upgrades. If you want something smaller, the E82 1-series is great (full disclosure: I drive an M-sport 128i). In the case of the later platform, I strongly suggest avoiding the turbo motors (more complexity, higher costs).
If BMW could outsource everything rubber or plastic to the Japanese, they’d be unstoppable.
As the resident car guy at work, I often get asked “so you like your BMWs, should I get one?” I tell most people no.
Out of warranty, they’re enthusiast cars....including being enthusiastic about replacing parts made of rubber or plastic.
I didn't find my e30 to be cost prohibitive on maintenance, but of course it was an e30
You'll find that there is a BMW tax if you take it to any shop. I was living in an apartment for a while and my e30 needed a manual trans fluid change. It takes the same exact cheap fluid, there is a drain plug and a fill plug like any other transmission, but because it was a BMW, their $39.99 fluid change suddenly became $169.99 because BMW. I made sure to drive over their brand new, still-hot pavement when I left. I hope I left divots.
If you do your own maintenance and repairs, they really aren't any more expensive (much) than a chevy. Don't get parts from a dealer, use a local undercar parts wholesaler, or Rock Auto or Amazon. Every BMW part has the BMW part number on it as well as the Bosch part number. Look up the BMW part number for a relay and its $60. Look up the Bosch number and its $6.85. Just be smart and they're cheap.
They are a pretty complex machine, especially when it comes to electronics, and we could talk for hours about European electronics.
I would honestly look for the nicest e46 you can find. The e90 was a nice upgrade in many ways, but the design of it hasn't made me fall in love. There are plenty of e46 manuals with low mileage that grandpa bought for the Florida house.
Scared of boxsters and caymans but thinks a 2002+ bmw might be the answer lol
You can get a manual e46 m3 or e39 m5 for under 15k.
Sometimes smg e60 m5's too. If you're brave.
In reply to Curtis :
The E90 is one of those (rare) cars that looks better as a sedan than a coupe. The lines/proportions just work better.
I’ve had...
- 1998 e36 328i manual
- 1995 e36 325ic auto convertible
- 2004 e46 330i manual zhp (performance package)
- 1997 e39 540i manual sport package
- 2011 e90 335i auto xdrive (awd)
I would say of the ones we drove regularly the 328i and the 330i were the least troublesome of the lot. The 335i has needed nothing in the time we have had it (3 years now), but it also gets driven on average 6 miles a day, which is why I let my wife have it. If it was doing 15k miles a year I probably would have passed. The 540 was the most troublesome of the lot, but it also was an amazingly good driver for a big car and that motor just was so good it really felt like you were getting more than 289hp out of it.
Stick with a manual 3 series without a turbo and keep an eye on the coolant system and you should overall be good. The inline six cars are really easy to work on overall. There are tons of online articles detailing every procedure you might want to do. I definitely would not go older than the e46 cars as you’re entering major project territory at that point. Even the newest e46 cars are 11 years old now, so any one will need a good once over to make sure common problems and maintenance have been dealt with. Any M car should be gone over especially thoroughly because anything in your price range will have been ragged on thoroughly.
BMW cooling systems are designed for the harshest of German winters.
If you are afraid of Porsche, you really shouldn't buy a BMW.
And this is from someone who currently owns BMW #4. I can turn wrenches when I want to, but I find myself not wanting to spend my free time in the garage (it's 6am on a Sunday and I'm taking a quick break from finishing up some work that I didn't get finished on Friday)
Although slightly more than you are wanting to spend, let me give you an idea of shop prices so far with my 135 DCT, with my extremely awesome indy guy.
- Two rear 245/35/18 Pilot Super Sport run flats, $450
- Oil change, $125 (it's $170 at the dealer) 7 qts of Amsoil
- Update DME/ABS/DCT transmission software, $250, dealer told me $450.
- Replace spark plugs $350, also replaced the cabin air filter I purchased since the cover has to come off, the anti-microbial filter I purchased on my own was $50.
Yes, you can do this yourself, just giving you an idea of what it will cost if you decide you don't want to mess with it and use a professional.
If I keep it long enough, $450 to replace the belt/tensioner/idler pulleys (~$175 in parts IIRC), dealer wants $750.
IIRC we have roughly the same tastes in cars. I bought a 2003 BMW 330ci and am very very happy with it (it does everything very well imho AND i can turn the traction control completely off).
If I were paying labor rates on all the preventative maintenance it needs, I might not be so happy with it.
G35/G37 coupe would be well suited. Mechanically similar to the Z cars, but with leather, sound insulation and +2 small seats. Also a few hundred pounds.
$1.5k to $3k per year on maintenance sounds about right for a BMW. Any car you're doing track days with will require tech inspection and likely lots of maintenance.
If you want a porsche, don't rule one out. Many porsches have had the IMS bearing fix done proactively. I imagine you could find a boxster and budget a few grand for the IMS fix and clutch and stay well within budget. Pre-purchase inspection is essential.
z31maniac said:
If you are afraid of Porsche, you really shouldn't buy a BMW.
And this is from someone who currently owns BMW #4. I can turn wrenches when I want to, but I find myself not wanting to spend my free time in the garage (it's 6am on a Sunday and I'm taking a quick break from finishing up some work that I didn't get finished on Friday)
Although slightly more than you are wanting to spend, let me give you an idea of shop prices so far with my 135 DCT, with my extremely awesome indy guy.
- Two rear 245/35/18 Pilot Super Sport run flats, $450
- Oil change, $125 (it's $170 at the dealer) 7 qts of Amsoil
- Update DME/ABS/DCT transmission software, $250, dealer told me $450.
- Replace spark plugs $350, also replaced the cabin air filter I purchased since the cover has to come off, the anti-microbial filter I purchased on my own was $50.
Yes, you can do this yourself, just giving you an idea of what it will cost if you decide you don't want to mess with it and use a professional.
If I keep it long enough, $450 to replace the belt/tensioner/idler pulleys (~$175 in parts IIRC), dealer wants $750.
These costs illustrate why I recommend avoiding the turbo motors for daily driver use. My N51 NA engine, which is in the same family as the N55 turbo motor referenced above, has far lower costs for parts and frequently labor. The spark plugs, for example, are so costly to do on the turbo motors because of the direct injection; the NA motor has traditional port injection. The belt/tensioner/pulley kit for the NA motor is $80. You give up some power with the NA motor to be sure, but for DD use the costs make the turbo engines a much costlier long-term investment.
^You are 100% correct.
But the DCT + 300lb/ft of torques at basically idle, make it ridiculous fun from a stoplight. But it comes with a cost.
In reality, I'll probably trade mine in on something over the winter that doesn't have a $10k transmission.
Double sidenote, they are expensive, but damn do they drive amazingly. My girlfriend is super upset that I'll get rid of the car this winter. It's really down to, are you willing to spend the money to own some of the best driving cars ever built.
02Pilot said:
Then the question is how much speed you want. Rule of thumb: modern BMWs need anywhere between $1500-3000 spent on maintenance per year (assuming labor costs in that figure, less if you do the work yourself obviously).
How come I don't have to spend that much on my BMWs? I mean, not even CLOSE. My '01 740i Sport got $300 in repairs over a 3 year span with me and needed a few oil changes in there, too. My '05 330ci ZHP has needed a couple oil changes and $150 in repairs in the year and a half I've had it (one fuel pump right after we got it).
And that's the one I'd recommend. The E46 330CI ZHP. You can find really nice coupes with fairly low mileage for about $6500-8500. Put some money aside for mods and potential repairs and you can probably own the car for a number of years with very little spent on it, even if you use it for track days.7/8ths of an M3 for 3/4 the price or less.
Let's be real here, the ZHP isn't close to 7/8ths of an E46 M3. Alcantara, a 6spd and 10 more HP, don't come close to making it nearly the same car.
Chris, with your E38s I'd say you (check all that apply):
- were lucky
- didn't drive a ton of miles
- bought well-maintained cars
- didn't keep them long enough to replace common parts
tension strut bushings are good for 75k miles and are about $100 if you DIY and only replace the bushings
timing chain guides are good for 100k and the parts are about $500 if you DIY. Labor is another $600-$1000 depending on shop.
Front rotors and pads are good for 50k and are $200-$300 DIY
cooling system is a consumable at 60k-100k. DIY cost about $500.
I could go on but my thumbs are tired. Are they great cars when they are great? Yes, without a doubt.
Are they costly to maintain? Generally speaking, Yes, without a doubt.
buzzboy said:
BMW cooling systems are designed for the harshest of German winters.
Yes, four of them. Try to go five winters and you will be berkeleyed in the ass by radiator or expansion tank failure.
Chris_V said:
02Pilot said:
Then the question is how much speed you want. Rule of thumb: modern BMWs need anywhere between $1500-3000 spent on maintenance per year (assuming labor costs in that figure, less if you do the work yourself obviously).
How come I don't have to spend that much on my BMWs? I mean, not even CLOSE. My '01 740i Sport got $300 in repairs over a 3 year span with me and needed a few oil changes in there, too. My '05 330ci ZHP has needed a couple oil changes and $150 in repairs in the year and a half I've had it (one fuel pump right after we got it).
Check the prices at a dealer or specialist indy for Inspection I & II. If the suspension in your E46 hasn't been completely gone through it's past due unless you're way under average mileage - try pricing that out at a shop just for kicks. Tires? Brakes? Hell, oil changes are over $150 at the dealer IIRC.
The range I quoted is with labor, as noted - typically around $160 or so an hour around here at least, last time I checked - and gets you a scrupulously maintained car with all the preventive maintenance and proactive replacement done so you can feel confident about driving it cross-country tomorrow. DIY brings it down a lot, and clearly there are different standards of maintenance: fix when it breaks, or replace before?
