E30 vs E36 vs CRX vs Miata for cheap track day weapon?

E30s - HP is easy with a swap, I've already built a few and know them in and out.

E36s - HP is easy, V8 swap even easier than E30 (at least it seems that way), better rear suspension than E30. A lower model can easily have M3 brakes put on which should be more than enough for track duty with correct pads.

Decent ones seem to be available for CHEAP.

CRX - I like lightweight (same as Miata) so it will be easier on consumables. I like the "lego" aspect of them when it comes to parts/brakes/motors.

BTW what's the best engine you can swap in without a bunch of extra fabrication? Is a K20 possible?

Miata - I don't really like them, decent ones are hard to find around here at a reasonable price (I don't need a show car but don't want to build a track car out of a nasty, rust bucket - this applies to all vehicles mentioned, especially the E30).

Lightweight, RWD best suspension etc. I have driven a Mazdaspeed Miata, but not in anger at a track/AutoX.

The fiancee has approved me building a cheap track car if it means I'll the Speed 3 stock and not mess with it. And I don't really want to beat on my brand new car in parking lots/Hallett.

If it's any concern, this car will be used for track days almost exclusively at Hallett, which is a shorter, tighter course. And Auto-X.

An E36 M3 with header, cams, programming, a 3.64 LSD and good aftermarket suspension is fast enough to turn a 2:11 at the Glen and a 1:21 at Summit Point.

You will be hard pressed to find anything else in the price range to best it.

EDIT: That said... my E30 is quicker than that at only $8.5K invested but... its got a million hours of labor in it and its very light.

only knock against Miata is required rollbar ($400-$600) and the high price. I made the same decision as you very recently and ended up with a slightly ratty miata for ~$3300 after track prep, but I still need the roll bar.

GPS, I was hoping you'd chime in. An E36 M3 is out of the budget, even super high mileage ones around here still pull $7k+ unless it's just beat to crap.

I don't mind one that has a thrashed interior or rough body, but I want solid mechanicals to start.

If I went the E36 route, I'd look for a 325/328/318, then later work on swapping in a V8.

nocones, that's not really a knock in my opinion. Any car I get will at least get a 4 point cage, with fixed back seats and harnesses.

I'm also very interested in a clean V8 swapped E36 but I do not like the current offerings with their choked and compromised exhaust routing. I'd like to take a stab at it using a different steering rack and Tilton pedal setup to make plenty of room - maybe even a dry sump so the motor can go really low and rearward.

I thought hard about doing it with the E30 but I decided to build a car that could race in BMWCCA and so non-BMW power was out. Older affordable BMW V8s just don't have enough advantage over an S52/54 to make it worth the effort. Its gotta be a bow-tie LS if its going to be king of the hill when its done.

Have you sat in all of them? How big are you? Miata's can be tight for taller/bigger drivers.

Having run all of the cars you have mentioned in both venues (except CRX, just auto-x there), I still prefer the Miata for simplicity and its light weight, nimble feel. If you want more power down the road, swaps and boost are there to meet your needs, but tend to cost a bit more then with the others you mentioned. But even NA, they can be quite quick around a track. And like you mentioned, easy on the consumables.

I'm really thinking E36 + 5.0 might be the best way to get a great chassis/brakes and reliable cheap HP.

z31maniac wrote: I'm really thinking E36 + 5.0 might be the best way to get a great chassis/brakes and reliable cheap HP.

5.0 is a nice tight package but its also down 100hp/tq to the LS motor. An S54 is an easier swap and out-performs it.

True, but the cost of the swap is exponentially higher for the LS1. The S54 as well IIRC.

Plus a cam and aluminum heads on a 5.0 should get it up around 300whp, which should be plenty in a gutted E36, no?

Why not just go spec e36 or spec e30?

Spec e36's are, what, 2500 lbs and ~200-210 hp? Plus, being in a spec class means they'll have lots of opportunity for wheel to wheel racing...

Having recently purchased a nice clean E30... I wish I had held my ground with the g/f and bought a Miata. Not that I mind the BMW that much, but if I could go back and change my mind, I would. Buying the E30 brought back all of the bad memories of working on the '97 M3...

All this being said, as I've dug into the E30 world over the past few months, I've come to believe the answer really and truely is Miata... I just wish I'd known that then.

scardeal wrote: Why not just go spec e36 or spec e30? Spec e36's are, what, 2500 lbs and ~200-210 hp? Plus, being in a spec class means they'll have lots of opportunity for wheel to wheel racing...

An idea, but racing is out of the budget at the moment. $100 trackdays once/twice a month ARE in the budget once the car is built however.

I am thinking about the same thing. I have a nice car for DD and I don't want to bring that to the track to beat on, so I am trying to figure out how to get away cheap with a nice performing RWD car dedicated for track use, and driving to the track. I am really leaning towards the E36 since there seem to be a lot out there and I just prefer the look of the E36 vs any of the other cars.

Ian F: What is your reasoning behind the miata?

Lighter, much better suspension than the E30, is my guess.

My thoughts on the Miata are...

Lighter & better suspension than an E30 but about the same lap times given $ for $ mods. They are slower and less capable than an E36... but really in the grand scheme of things they are good, fun, cheap cars and if they appeal more to you then its all a wash.

The problem comes in with the Miata when you look at what you bring to the track... if you don't have a truck and trailer you are left with whatever fits in the pass. seat and little trunkie thing. That means driving there on race tires and race pads.

An E30/36 can swallow 4 track wheels and tires, a cooler full of IPA, tools, jack, stands, sleeping bag, tent, duffle full of clothes and a passenger. I have even got a mountain bike on the roof.

Why build? Buy this Miata: Turbo Miata I know the owner...he'd entertain part or whole trades too.

^Great car no doubt, but again, more than I want to spend initially.

jonnyd330 wrote: Ian F: What is your reasoning behind the miata?

First. More 'expendable', more or less. I subscribe to the theory that if you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to race it, and high-speed track use may as well be racing to me. Track-rat quality Miatas may be hard to find... E30's are even harder... I look at my E30 and realize there is no way I'd want to risk wadding it up on the track.

Second. As my main venue is auto-x right now and while I do it for fun, I would like to have the most competitive car I can afford. That being so, a Miata is more competitive in ES than any of the classes an E30 runs in.. at least at a level I can afford to prep one for.

Third. Have you tried to buy good street tires for an E30 lately? It's freakin' annoying... >:-(

You're pondering an E30 with a V8 swap, but miatas are too expensive? Unless you have enclosed storage, I would stay away from the CRX, even bone stock it's theft bait.

To answer the question about K20A swaps in a CRX I present

http://www.crxkswap.com/

I have run against this car. It is a beast, and also completely road legal.

As for theft and CRX's, last I checked Miatas weren't a challenge to steal either.

It's not that they are a challenge to steal, it's the desirability of the parts. Hondas and Acuras are the number one theft targets these days. Miatas, not so much.

calteg wrote: You're pondering an E30 with a V8 swap, but miatas are too expensive? Unless you have enclosed storage, I would stay away from the CRX, even bone stock it's theft bait.

A nearly $6k car, off the bat is too expensive, keep up with reading what's been posted in the thread. I said that is INITIALLY more than I want to spend.

I'm hoping to find a RUNNING cheap car, that I can do brakes/suspension/safety FIRST. Then drive the crap out of it til that motor let's go, THEN think about more HP.

Yes, I have a two car garage. I built my S52 E30 in the gravel driveway of my old house, never again.

pick up an e36 328.. do the intake swap for the intake from the 325 and add M3 cams... will get you most of the power of the M3

I would stay away from the m3 brakes.. grab a set of brakes off of the e46 330i.. just as big and MUCH cheaper (and do not require a spindle change)

as for handling.. poly bushes, swaybars, and a set of coilovers will have you hurting on the m3s in a big way

The B-series or D-series is a lot cheaper then a K-series swap. I like turbo D-series. They are cheap and swapping one would be easy.

96DXCivic wrote: The B-series or D-series is a lot cheaper then a K-series swap. I like turbo D-series. They are cheap and swapping one would be easy.

Needs 150% "G23 Vtec Type S."