e36 vs GTI

Well I'm looking to get rid of my current ride, a 4runner and pick up something fast gain that I can autocross. I think I have narrowed it down to a e36 (preferably an 325is or 328is) or a mk4 (97-06) GTI. I am a college student and do a lot of driving, and need something that isn't going to crash and burn half way through my 3 hour drives, but can also make it around the cones fast. My budget is around $4500, and I know that these cars can be had in that range. I know that on the BMW the coolant system is a the 1st thing to do when you get it. I don't know as much about the GTI, and the fwd would be totaly new to me, I had an e30 as my first car and autoxed it several times so I know how the rwd can be, but not fwd. Also for the GTI, should I go 1.8t or VR6? Its looking like the 1.8t will get better mpg. Is the fwd going to be less fun then the rwd, am I going to miss the BMW feel that the e30 had?

I've owned both an E36 M3 and an 04 GTI 1.8t, and spent considerable time with other E36 variants, 325 and 318.

I'd take the e36 every time. I prefer the way they drive, but that is just the start. While the E36 will be older, I think it will be easier to find a clean, well maintained one. Of the problems that both will have, the E36's are very well documented and none of them are really all that hard to fix. The Mk4 VW was really VW's quality low point. You will bask in the neverending glow of the check engine light, wiring problems, random cooling problems, and really anything else.

That leads into the next point, I have found E36s as very easy to work on, things are well placed and service was kept in mind during the design. Nothing was ever all that hard. I hated working on the GTI. Hated it. Nothing was laid out in an easy way to do things, and several jobs the easiest way to do them was to pull the entire front end off of the car. No thanks.

Hyundai accent. You're in college, you will be happier.

Civic. Not one of your choices. But damn thing never breaks and they are easy to work on.

ansonivan wrote: Hyundai accent. You're in college, you will be happier.

+1

Or a Protege or Ford Focus or something else with a greater degree of reliability combined with fun factor.

Leave the expensive to fix cars for when you graduate and have a real job.

If i had to choose between the 2 E36 all day every day but i agree with the accent or a focus to learn and move on to the headaches later when you have more money and time.

The e36 is the better option, the Golf I drove put me to sleep, not something I'd recommend while driving.

How'd we miss this?

MIATA!

I had a E36 325i in college so that's the route I would suggest. Gas was $1.60/gal (for premium - that's what it required) back then lol. Oil traded at $12/barrel in '97.

As the others have said, a 4 cyl 5-speed is what I'd be driving in college now.

Of the two choices, I'd pick the Mk IV. Like Sonic, I have reasonable experience working on both but unlike him, would rather work on the VW. Service parts for the BMW are reasonably priced... but VW parts are even more so. IMHO, the CEL thing is over-blown... my car is a day away from 250K miles and the CEL has not been a frequent problem. If it goes on, I plug in the computer, find the problem, fix it and reset the light. By comparison, I nick-named our '97 M3 "the Christmas tree" because it was green and the dash lights were constantly going on: CEL (Evap codes), SRS (seat belt sensors), OBC (brake switch)... I don't miss that aspect of the car in the least.

One big difference between the E36 and the MkIV is the interior.

VW set a standard back in '99 with the Mk IV that left other manufacturers scrambling to catch up (and IMHO, few have to this day). It was finished to such a high standard that even VW couldn't match it with the Mk V (mainly due to production costs). I go to the auto shows every year and still rarely see an interior that matches the biege leather in my Mk IV. And none that even come close to the $23K MSRP of my car (paid under $21K).

Conversely, the E36 interior is widely considered a low point for BMW quality. It's not bad for 1992, but looks and feels dated compared to a Mk IV. The only part I'd take from the BMW would be those wonderful Vader seats.

Now after all that... buy a Civic. Better choice for a college kid than either.

Yes - Civic. Something waaaaaay easier. Something with a carb would be superb. As bad as they can sometimes run, they almost always mix some fuel with some air. I hope you'll be too busy and too poor in college to take real care of a car.

Thanks for all the info guys! I had also been toying with the idea of an integra gsr, but the whole street racer persona that goes with it has been a turn off but the price is right, its pretty quick, its supposed to handle awesome, has a ton of aftermarket, gets good mileage, it should be reliable... but for some reason I cant wrap my head around one totally.

EF or EG Civic or CRX and keep it as stock as possible. A Miata is also a nearly perfect choice.

I dont expect you to listen but I will say it anyways: Please listen to experience and dont saddle yourself with a money pit right now while you are in school.

heed what Ojala said: stay away from German cars until you're ready and able to deal with the maintenance

Uncoiled wrote: Thanks for all the info guys! I had also been toying with the idea of an integra gsr, but the whole street racer persona that goes with it has been a turn off but the price is right, its pretty quick, its supposed to handle awesome, has a ton of aftermarket, gets good mileage, it should be reliable... but for some reason I cant wrap my head around one totally.

Kinda OT, but just can't let this one slip by..

It's not our (the enthusiast "our") fault that this crazy society makes conclusions based upon what kind of car you have. Berkeley other people. If you've driven an Integra, and you like it, get one. Don't let other people convince you that it's not what you want.

I'm actually facing a version of that right now. I'm 49, and people scratch their heads and wonder why I'm still driving sports cars. Whenever one of the morons says something about "midlife crisis", I just remind them that I've been driving sports cars since I was 15 berkeleying years old, and this is just the latest in a long line of em. If you end up with a Honda, shove the haters. For that matter, shove every poseur that tells you you need 1000lb. of plastic crap and strobelights on it. And even if you want 1000lb. of plastic crap and strobelights on it, shove me. Find what you like, tune it to do what you want, and drive the hell out of it. It's your car, not theirs Tell the people who think cars are nothing but fashion accessories to go to hell.

Okay, rant over..carry on. As far as which to choose, I'm with the other guys. A lot of German cars are basically pretty sound, but they'll nickel & dime you to death keeping it healthy. Go Japanese, spend money on event fees. Have any of you Toyota guys had a 6th gen Celica? I've heard they're heavy, but that might be a choice..

EDIT: "society" now has a "c" in it..when I grow up I wanna learn to spell.

I have the GTI. 1.8T, some mods, DD. 27-32 mpg. Good in snow. Fun to autocross and PDX. I get my butt kicked in ST. Its too heavy. Id love this motor in a rabbit or the 84 gti I had.

mkivs are portly. e36s from my experience are pretty light on their feet. in a way tho this is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. if you must be collegey and front wheel drive id say honda. collegey and rear wheel drive, and for that matter bmw, e30 all the way

EF and EG are indeed nice, but i'd also vote for the EK coupe in a 5 spd. if you can swing it. I'm just starting to figure Hondas out (yes, very late to the game), but easy to sort with the board's help, and easy to work on.

Having had both an EG and EK, I will say I prefer my EG.

93EXCivic wrote: Having had both an EG and EK, I will say I prefer my EG.

+1. Ergonomics are better to me.

I prefer the LOOK of the EK, but i'd rather DRIVE an EG.

Either way stock Civic seats suck after about 2 hours but better ones are just a junkyard trip away (Integra or del Sol).

93EXCivic wrote: Either way stock Civic seats suck after about 2 hours but better ones are just a junkyard trip away (Integra or del Sol).

oh they reeeally do.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Kinda OT, but just can't let this one slip by.. It's not our (the enthusiast "our") fault that this crazy society makes conclusions based upon what kind of car you have. Berkeley other people. If you've driven an Integra, and you like it, get one. Don't let other people convince you that it's not what you want. I'm actually facing a version of that right now. I'm 49, and people scratch their heads and wonder why I'm still driving sports cars. Whenever one of the morons says something about "midlife crisis", I just remind them that I've been driving sports cars since I was *15 berkeleying years old*, and this is just the latest in a long line of em. If you end up with a Honda, shove the haters. For that matter, shove every poseur that tells you you need 1000lb. of plastic crap and strobelights on it. And even if you *want* 1000lb. of plastic crap and strobelights on it, shove *me*. Find what you like, tune it to do what you want, and drive the hell out of it. It's *your* car, not theirs Tell the people who think cars are nothing but fashion accessories to go to hell. Okay, rant over..carry on. As far as which to choose, I'm with the other guys. A lot of German cars are basically pretty sound, but they'll nickel & dime you to death keeping it healthy. Go Japanese, spend money on event fees. Have any of you Toyota guys had a 6th gen Celica? I've heard they're heavy, but that might be a choice.. EDIT: "society" now has a "c" in it..when I grow up I wanna learn to spell.

Words to live by.

I missed the 6th gen Celica comment. They aren't that heavy, about the same as a similar year Integra.

Nice reliable cars, just maybe not as sporty as the Teg in stock form. Great highway cars.

friedgreencorrado wrote: I'm actually facing a version of that right now. I'm 49, and people scratch their heads and wonder why I'm still driving sports cars. Whenever one of the morons says something about "midlife crisis", I just remind them that I've been driving sports cars since I was *15 berkeleying years old*, and this is just the latest in a long line of em. If you end up with a Honda, shove the haters. For that matter, shove every poseur that tells you you need 1000lb. of plastic crap and strobelights on it. And even if you *want* 1000lb. of plastic crap and strobelights on it, shove *me*. Find what you like, tune it to do what you want, and drive the hell out of it. It's *your* car, not theirs Tell the people who think cars are nothing but fashion accessories to go to hell.

Im with you! Is it wrong that I want to paint a car purple and put a fog machine, purple neon and strobes underneath it along with a huge stereo that only plays Prince?