E46 M3 traction control on track

I had a bad experience with it this weekend, I'm wondering if it's just me.

It's there to protect the masses from themselves. If you want to run a slip angle turn it off.

Still intruded on your driving with it turned off? Or you didn't like it with it turned on? Traction control is not meant for driving 10/10ths on track.

Turned off it was fine but tail happy if I got too aggressive. Turned on I couldn't do a 7/10ths lap without it cutting power constantly. It was a friend's car so I didn't want to go nuts but I don't know what to tell him now, I don't think he's ready to run with it off but I don't think he's going to learn anything about smooth throttle application with it on because it's too intrusive.

The closest other BMW product I've driven was a student's 435i xDrive and the traction control system was superb -- never kicked on for me when I did a demo lap but saved his ass a few times when we needed it.

My E46 330ci's stability/traction control just robbed power, cooked the rear brakes and held me back significantly at Road America. My instructor told me to turn it off halfway around the course the very first time we went out at my very first HPDE if that tells you anything. I see almost no reason to run a track event with it turned on.

I wonder if he has crappy or worn out tires? That will make it difficult to control with traction control off and will make the traction control very intrusive with it on. A 7/10ths lap will need good rubber.

BMW made big strides in the Traction Control system being non-intrusive in sport mode from the E46 to the E90/2 generation. I imagine the F-generation is even better.

And yes, it's very hard to drive an E46 M3 at 9/10ths or higher with bad tires.

steronz wrote: Turned off it was fine but tail happy if I got too aggressive.

Bingo. This is what you want to know - you are being hamfisted and need to smooth those inputs out.

Once you learn to manage traction without traction control you will be amazed at how fast you can go with it on and not have it interrupt you but when you toss the car around and cause loss of traction it intervenes and it does it early before you would normally need it on the street.

Turn it off and leave it off on the track. ESPECIALLY if it rains :) There is much to learn from doing your own traction management without a safety net.

In reply to Huckleberry:

Is this advice specific to the E46 or is it general pontification?

steronz wrote: In reply to Huckleberry: Is this advice specific to the E46 or is it general pontification?

General pontification. I've been a BMW, PCA and NASA instructor for 17 years. I can't help myself. No good will come of driving around with it on except you will return safely to the pits. You won't really learn anything except that it does work to keep you from losing or taking control :)

Do you have your students turn it off?

I don't have your experience (I've only been instructing for 2 years) but what we're being told now is to have the students leave on as many nannies as we can. Of the dozen or so students I've had with TC equipped cars, only 2 systems have ever given me a problem -- an FR-S (wet track, terribly intrusive to the point where I relented and let him turn it off) and now this M3. Usually I don't have a problem working on HPDE1 level skills with the systems on.

Turn it off, it will just cook the rear brakes. IDK about all years, but my E46, you have to hold the DSC off button for 5 seconds until the ebrake indicator lights if your really want it OFF off.

In reply to steronz:

The "new" BMW club approach is to not suggest it directly. If the student asks then I give my opinion and make it clear that it is their decision to turn it off but I typically won't mention it and see if they notice it intervening. I might prompt with a "Did you feel that" or something but if they don't notice on their own - then they are not ready to take off the blinders anyway.

I am going to go with worn rear tyres and maybe a worn factory LSD? I know the LSD works superbly with the LSD, if you are getting one wheel to spin more than the other, then I am thinking it's toast