pres589 wrote: In reply to Tommy Suddard: Do Spitfires handle well without a lot of work? I know they see a lot of track use and all but factory I thought they had weird camber curves and some other issues to deal with.
I don't know if they are technically perfect, but they do handle well out of the box. They only weigh as much as a small child, which helps.
LikeOldCars wrote: foreign cars were tougher to repair..
No, the older brit cars are probably way easier than most stuff. You just have to do it all the berkeleying time.
We should probably explain something to LikeOldCars; "berkeley" is kind of like the F word and E30 refers to the BMW 3 series from 1986 to 1990 (92 if we're talking about the convertible). Both of these get mentioned a lot around here, especially the E30.
Without those information points I think this discussion would make less sense to the reader.
E30.
Seriously.
In reply to pres589:
Convertible went to 93.
I've been very pleased with my previous Datson 260Z, Fiat X1/9, and my current Alfa Milano. The same goes for my Volvo 740s and my e30.
My wife's '77 Mercedes 280E seems easy to work on, though the vacuum locking system is a little odd.
Having owned a Miata and a Triumph TR6 for 20 years, I can vouch for the Miata recommendations. It's a fairly traditional sports car in design and drives very well. As for working on one, I have rarely done so because it was required beyond the standard easy maintenance. The TR6 is a great car, infinitely rebuildable, and actually quite simple to maintain. There's just more to do. It makes you say things like "Hey, I just replaced that clutch 1000 miles ago" or "Where's that gas smell coming from?". I'd rather drive the Triumph on a perfect day, but I wouldn't hesitate to drive a well-maintained 200,000 mile Miata coast-to-coast.
Only get an older British car if you like to tinker (a lot).
It depends on what you prefer. I would say try to try drive a number of possibilities and decide. I personally would much rather have the old British sports cars then a Miata but that is my personal choice.
E30 was 1984-1991, '92 for the vert.
Tommy, I didn't realize the vert went to '93!
all except the most modern of BMWs are pretty easy to maintain. Stay pre 2000 and aside from the check engine light on the 90s models that comes on whenever it feels like it.. you can not go wrong with a 3 series. E30s are DEAD simple.. E36s are slightly more modern intensive due to emissions.
Basically, the older the car, the more quirky it gets.. just like us
AE86 - think of it as a Miata that can do additional things....
Ford Fiesta- mine sat in a parking lot for 10 years before i bought it. I changed the coil and it started right up. Its surprisingly quick since it weighs so little.
^i like fiestas. im surprised this hasnt been said yet: vw beetle! world renowned for being easy to work on, huge parts availability and if you put a turbo on it you WILL be the coolest guy in your neighborhood
LikeOldCars wrote: In reply to ReverendDexter: Probably just to maintain. I was leaning towards Miata's, and I always liked Triumphs and MGs but had thought foreign cars were tougher to repair. I had a 2003 mercedes and was so disappointed in it that I never thought of going back.
The LBCs ("Little British Cars") are often mechanically so simple that they should come in a box with "Revell" or "Monogram" on it.
Only problem is that they're all now so old that's it's hard to find a good one. Rust is the enemy, it's killed plenty of old cars that were running just fine. In fact, the reason I've walked away from my couple of "dream cars" (original Porsche 911, and the BMW 2800/3.0/3.5 CSL) is simply because I can repair mechanical stuff pretty well, but don't know how to weld.
It's not so much domestic vs. import, but antique vs. modern. Spark, spark-timing, fuel and compression don't care what country they're from. Antiques use mechanical ways to adjust it all (except for compression!! 
), but modern cars use electronic methods. I'll bet a 1st generation Miata is actually easier to understand than a brand new Cobalt or Challenger. I know my 1992 VWs run better, more consistant, and also provide better fuel economy than any of my old British crocks (or my buddies' muscle cars) ever did. Or even (from what I've learned hanging around here) a new VW.
Things like electronic FI might seem complicated compared the fuel and ignition systems of the past, but they're really much simpler than people make them out to be. There are plenty of books about the basic principals of the system, and when repaired well, they take much less "fussing" than older cars. I had to synchronize the carburetors and set the point gap on my old Triumph every week. I had to mechanically adust the valve clearences on it every couple of months. OTOH, the last problem I had with my 1992 VW Golf 8v was that the meter telling the computer how much air enters the engine was dirty (it didn't move correctly, and told the fuel system the "wrong thing" about how much fuel to pour), and that some of the vaccum hoses had rotted after 18yrs of service in a hot engine bay ("wrong airflow" again..). I sprayed some "carb cleaner" into the , and it runs like new. IMO, it's worth learning how the systems actually work just to be able to stick the key in and fire her up without having to worry about whether or not all that crap we used to adjust manually has been done correctly.
And they're really not that complicated! Don't let "modern" fuel systems scare you off.
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h20.pdf
You can do this.
Am I weird that I don't think most of the cars that have been mentioned in this thread are classics? In no way do I think a Fiestas or Miatas count as old or classics.
96DXCivic wrote: Am I weird that I don't think most of the cars that have been mentioned in this thread are classics? In no way do I think a Fiestas or Miatas count as old or classics.
I certainly see where you are coming from, and even agree with you... But...
Look at an E30... The first ones came out in 1984. Thats 26 years old. Mine is one of the newer ones, and its 20 years old. It feels like a classic, even if everything works on it.
Look at a Miata. The NA's are now old enough to drink. They're about as base as you can get. It might not be a classic, but its damn close to one. another 4 years and you can get collectors insurance on one.
96DXCivic wrote: Am I weird that I don't think most of the cars that have been mentioned in this thread are classics? In no way do I think a Fiestas or Miatas count as old or classics.
haha yea im with ya on the fiesta. i dont consider it a classic at all. just a fun cheap car for a highscooler. i only mentioned ot because he said 70's 80's or even 90's
96DXCivic wrote: Am I weird that I don't think most of the cars that have been mentioned in this thread are classics? In no way do I think a Fiestas or Miatas count as old or classics.
Not sure about any of the other cars mentioned.... but Hemmings Motor News, Feb 2005, noted the AE86 GTS as an emerging classic...
Hemmings IS the source....
Crap - another thread to remind me how old I am. 
For the most part, a lot of cars of similar age share similar technologies/functions and require similar repair/maintenance abilities - things like electronic ignitions vs. mechanical, fuel injection vs. carbs, OBD I vs OBD II... Newer stuff has more built-in adjustments compared to earlier cars (60s and earlier) that took out a lot of the tinkering and tweaking - things like hydraulic clutches, hydraulic tappets/lifters... Old cars can be just as reliable/predictable as the new stuff, but you do have to take care of things. If you want to learn cars inside out in their elemental form - early stuff is easier to get a handle on. Played around with a subaru legacy and a 66 rambler today. Subie had sensors and electronics - rambler has 2 wires under the hood (not counting plug wires). Subie had a bad coil - still sitting, waiting for part. Rambler had binding shift linkage - fixed rambler with a flat head screwdriver. Newer cars layer on extra systems like more emission controls, fuel controls, more sophisticated electrical systems, etc. Parts availability can be a function of popularity. Pick something you like and learn it. FWIW - an old brit car may break on you, but with some baling wire and duct tape it will probably get you home. When electronics fail, you stopped until you can replace the failed bit.
Around here the usual answer is Miata or E30 (for good reason though). Good luck!
Get a Fiat X1/9! They're really easy to work on.
While your at it you should buy a Lanica too.
Seriously though, Miata is the headache free choice. Look out for the early small crank cars and the 99's with the #4 bearing issue. Otherwise, buy and enjoy.
96DXCivic wrote: Am I weird that I don't think most of the cars that have been mentioned in this thread are classics? In no way do I think a Fiestas or Miatas count as old or classics.
I noticed something weird this weekend at The Mitty. I've never considered my Corrados as "classic", because they came out when I was already an adult.
Yet, I had four or five people stop me in the infield and ask me if they could take pix of the one I brought (the prettiest one, of course..after all, that's kinda what The Mitty is for ).time really shrinks when you get older. You kinda lose track of how younger people look at a car, even one from the 90s (which to me was yesterday.. ).
oldeskewltoy wrote: AE86 - think of it as a Miata that can do additional things....
You tend to get hit with rust and/or the drift tax hard on these fun little cars.
oldeskewltoy wrote: AE86 - think of it as a Miata that can do additional things....
You tend to get hit with rust and/or the drift tax hard on these fun little cars.
Where would you look for an AE86? Just out of curiosity, like?
friedgreencorrado wrote:96DXCivic wrote: Am I weird that I don't think most of the cars that have been mentioned in this thread are classics? In no way do I think a Fiestas or Miatas count as old or classics.I noticed something weird this weekend at The Mitty. I've never considered my Corrados as "classic", because they came out when I was already an adult. Yet, I had four or five people stop me in the infield and ask me if they could take pix of the one I brought (the prettiest one, of course..after all, that's kinda what The Mitty is *for*
I was born in '88 but I still can't think if anything newer then '85 as a classic.
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