My car has a Stage 1/2 tune, a GRM sticker.
My car has a Stage 1/2 tune, a GRM sticker.
chiodos wrote: I think it depends on who the company is, I have a friend who has nuked his 2013 wrx twice and both times warranty gave him a new motor. Its 390awhp so obviously theres a few non stock parts he didnt even bother returning to stock either.
This reminds me of people who demand their right to free speech, but refuse to take responsibility for their words. No, you do one, you get the other. You knowingly modify the car to make it less reliable, it breaks, YOU pay for it. If the "dealer" pays for it, it's essentially socialized racing for that one guy, where all the other customers pay for his fun.
Kinda like people who want to ride motorcycles without helmets, then can't afford their medical bills... but I digress. This whole "I want this but refuse to accept that has always been a hot button with me. I'll sit down now.
Knurled wrote: Number of Subaru customers with stock tunes who have blown engines: 0 Number of Subaru customers without stock tunes who have blown engines: All of them
Again, I know the BRZ (and the turbo cars even though different), but according to the tuners (and with things like RomRaider you can actually look for yourself at the difference in tunes as far as timing/fuel/VVT/etc) is that the stock Subaru tunes run lean and lots of timing below 4000rpm for:
With the BRZ a lot of the aftermarket tunes actually have less timing in the low-mid throttle applications than stock.
AFAIK the crappy stock tunes was an '08-up phenomenon.
GM also checks fuel quality by bumping the timing up and checking for knock, after every refueling event. Wouldn't be surprised if everyone else was doing that too.
HiTempguy wrote:Sky_Render wrote: Installing any non-Ford tune will void your warranty.Says who? Installing aftermarket parts does not void a cars warranty unless proven to be the cause of failure.
There's always the one guy...
Mmmkay. Let's begin with the TSB that was sent out to all Ford dealers specifically telling them to look for "signs of modification" on all Mustangs and diesel trucks that come in with engine issues. One of those signs is to check the flash history on the PCM, which as I stated above, cannot be erased. Non-Ford tune? Warranty voided. This came about in part due to all of the blown up early 5.0 Coyote motors that were tuned by ham-fisted chuckleheads who did little more than turn up the global timing advance, causing detonation in cylinder #8 and broken ring lands. (There is speculation that this was caused by one specific, popular tuner. But I digress.)
And now, of course, you're going to talk about some Magna-whatever Warranty Act. Bravo. So the dealer tells you your warranty is voided. And you respond, "NO! BLAH BLAH WARRANTY ACT!"
And then they promptly tell you to get bent, because they have more legal resources than you do.
It used to be that a tune didn't do much other than throttle response and a bit more peak horsepower from slightly advanced timing. However, since EVERYTHING is now controlled by the PCM on these newer motors, using good, safe tunes is much more crucial, hence car companies "protecting" themselves by not honoring engines broken by poor aftermarket calibrations.
Sky_Render wrote:HiTempguy wrote:There's always the one guy... Mmmkay. Let's begin with the TSB that was sent out to all Ford dealers specifically telling them to look for "signs of modification" on all Mustangs and diesel trucks that come in with engine issues. One of those signs is to check the flash history on the PCM, which as I stated above, cannot be erased. Non-Ford tune? Warranty voided. This came about in part due to all of the blown up early 5.0 Coyote motors that were tuned by ham-fisted chuckleheads who did little more than turn up the global timing advance, causing detonation in cylinder #8 and broken ring lands. (There is speculation that this was caused by one specific, popular tuner. But I digress.) And now, of course, you're going to talk about some Magna-whatever Warranty Act. Bravo. So the dealer tells you your warranty is voided. And you respond, "NO! BLAH BLAH WARRANTY ACT!" And then they promptly tell you to get bent, because they have more legal resources than you do. It used to be that a tune didn't do much other than throttle response and a bit more peak horsepower from slightly advanced timing. However, since EVERYTHING is now controlled by the PCM on these newer motors, using good, safe tunes is much more crucial, hence car companies "protecting" themselves by not honoring engines broken by poor aftermarket calibrations.Sky_Render wrote: Installing any non-Ford tune will void your warranty.Says who? Installing aftermarket parts does not void a cars warranty unless proven to be the cause of failure.
I so wanted to post something similar earlier. Hat is off to you sir...
Sky_Render wrote:HiTempguy wrote:There's always the one guy... Mmmkay. Let's begin with the TSB that was sent out to all Ford dealers specifically telling them to look for "signs of modification" on all Mustangs and diesel trucks that come in with engine issues. One of those signs is to check the flash history on the PCM, which as I stated above, cannot be erased. Non-Ford tune? Warranty voided. This came about in part due to all of the blown up early 5.0 Coyote motors that were tuned by ham-fisted chuckleheads who did little more than turn up the global timing advance, causing detonation in cylinder #8 and broken ring lands. (There is speculation that this was caused by one specific, popular tuner. But I digress.) And now, of course, you're going to talk about some Magna-whatever Warranty Act. Bravo. So the dealer tells you your warranty is voided. And you respond, "NO! BLAH BLAH WARRANTY ACT!" And then they promptly tell you to get bent, because they have more legal resources than you do. It used to be that a tune didn't do much other than throttle response and a bit more peak horsepower from slightly advanced timing. However, since EVERYTHING is now controlled by the PCM on these newer motors, using good, safe tunes is much more crucial, hence car companies "protecting" themselves by not honoring engines broken by poor aftermarket calibrations.Sky_Render wrote: Installing any non-Ford tune will void your warranty.Says who? Installing aftermarket parts does not void a cars warranty unless proven to be the cause of failure.
To piggy back on this, once the warranty claim is denied, it is the vehicle owner's responsibility to prove that the failure was not caused by said aftermarket part (or tune in this case). That is a very expensive rabbit hole to jump down.
Individual dealerships may be willing to bend the rules for customers, but all it takes is a factory service rep visiting the dealer that day to see your car and black flag your VIN. Mitsubishi and Subaru are known for doing this, as well as others.
Yeah, there are some people who you can take your car to for service if you're "altered" it, and they won't flag your VIN... which is where some of these stories of modded cars being repaired under warranty.
The way i see it is this: The number of modded cars repaired under warranty is very small. The number of modded cars with warranties denies is very large. I also remember certain companies taking pictures of license plates at dragstrips so they could go and void those car's warranties... Not sure what came of that, i think there were lawsuits involved.
Knurled wrote: Yeah, there are some people who you can take your car to for service if you're "altered" it, and they won't flag your VIN... which is where some of these stories of modded cars being repaired under warranty. The way i see it is this: The number of modded cars repaired under warranty is very small. The number of modded cars with warranties denies is very large. I also remember certain companies taking pictures of license plates at dragstrips so they could go and void those car's warranties... Not sure what came of that, i think there were lawsuits involved.
Pull onto private property of drag strip, remove plate, issue solved. Same with autoxes and track days.
I have a hard time trusting tuners and tuning companies. They rarely stand behind their product and will blame other modifications for issues.
Anyways, I think an ecoboost mustang wold be cool. Caveat, after hearing one with an exhaust it sounds like a cat that is slowly dying and that is not a good sound.
My notes were once the reason the Dodge dealer i worked at denied an SRT-4 owner an engine when a piston went through the block and landed in the radiator.
I noted on a repair order months before that it had an aftermarket boost controller and stock tune so it was knocking in higher rpms and recommended removing it. It had some other problem I forget at the time but it was on a test drive this was observed.
Edit found the pics:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/flatlander757/media/Car%20Related/SRT-4%20carnage/000_1136.jpg.html
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/flatlander757/media/Car%20Related/SRT-4%20carnage/000_1139.jpg.html
In reply to flatlander937:
Wow.
I've seen some crazy S but that is... wow.
In reply to Knurled:
Yeah it was pretty bad.
I had a hard time copying URLs on my phone, here's a slideshow of the whole album. Lots more carnage/14 more pics.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/flatlander757/slideshow/Car%20Related/SRT-4%20carnage
I don't remember what the turbo pics were for, probably just because of the aftermarket BOV? But the piston sure looked cool! The balance shafts were taken out in the process too. Clearly not just cruising along 
Password protected pictures.
I'd love to hear what the owner claimed, given what you saw months before. This type of person really annoys me, demanding they have a right to mod their engine, then cowardly run and hid from the responsibility when THEY break it. Good job to the dealer for telling him he can pay for his right to modify.
Made it public, try again
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/flatlander757/library/Car%20Related/SRT-4%20carnage?sort=3&src=wap&page=1
Tom_Spangler wrote: I'm just waiting for Eric (alfadriver) to show up and say it's optimized from the factory so you shouldn't mess with it.
Vacation baby!!!!
Great to get away sometimes.
The MKC with a tune would be an interesting sleeper 
Knurled wrote: The way i see it is this: The number of modded cars repaired under warranty is very small. The number of modded cars with warranties denies is very large. I also remember certain companies taking pictures of license plates at dragstrips so they could go and void those car's warranties... Not sure what came of that, i think there were lawsuits involved.
when I had a car with a warrenty, I would not even take it to the dealer with my aftermarket rims on it. It was returned to stock each time it went in
And I was the one who used to void mitsubishi warranties.
Knurled wrote: None of my Subaru customers with stock tunes have blown engines. Zero. I don't have any '08-up turbo Impreza customers save for one, admittedly. That one is probably the only one on the road with a stock exhaust for that matter
Friend with 04 STI, blown motor at 50k miles, stock tune. Friend with 08 STI, blown motor at 80k miles stock tune. First one autocrosses, but is in his 70s so doesn't do anything more with the car. Second one just drove from home to work.
Harvey, are you implying that dealers hide behind any modifications they find in order to avoid repairing the car? If so, it's yet another reason to not modify the car so that the dealership takes responsibility - which goes right back to my rant about responsibility avoidance.
kb58 wrote: Harvey, are you implying that dealers hide behind any modifications they find in order to avoid repairing the car? If so, it's yet another reason to not modify the car so that the dealership takes responsibility - which goes right back to my rant about responsibility avoidance.
Huh? It looks like he was backing up the "not all Subaru's that blow up have an aftermarket tune."
Harvey wrote:Knurled wrote: None of my Subaru customers with stock tunes have blown engines. Zero. I don't have any '08-up turbo Impreza customers save for one, admittedly. That one is probably the only one on the road with a stock exhaust for that matterFriend with 04 STI, blown motor at 50k miles, stock tune. Friend with 08 STI, blown motor at 80k miles stock tune. First one autocrosses, but is in his 70s so doesn't do anything more with the car. Second one just drove from home to work.
Why I started out with a lease for my STI. It's their property so if they don't want to fix it if it blows up, then so be it. Have your car back.
In reply to Harvey:
Knurled wrote: None of my Subaru customers with stock tunes have blown engines. Zero. I don't have any '08-up turbo Impreza customers save for one, admittedly. That one is probably the only one on the road with a stock exhaust for that matter (Regarding "modifying a 300 mile car" referenced upthread. I had an '10 Camaro come to me for headers and exhaust. When I pulled it into the bay it had just over 250 miles...) Friend with 04 STI, blown motor at 50k miles, stock tune. Friend with 08 STI, blown motor at 80k miles stock tune. First one autocrosses, but is in his 70s so doesn't do anything more with the car. Second one just drove from home to work.
Add my '05 Legacy GT to the list. Stock commute car, never modded, never saw the track. Two broken ring lands. From perusing the Legacy GT boards, those cars seem to have a much larger potion that remain stock compared to the WRX. And a LOT of stock cars break ring lands. LGT owners seem to do the opposite of most turbo car owners. Their stock cars break, then they mod them when they rebuild and fix the factory problems.
Harvey wrote:Knurled wrote: None of my Subaru customers with stock tunes have blown engines. Zero. I don't have any '08-up turbo Impreza customers save for one, admittedly. That one is probably the only one on the road with a stock exhaust for that matterFriend with 04 STI, blown motor at 50k miles, stock tune. Friend with 08 STI, blown motor at 80k miles stock tune. First one autocrosses, but is in his 70s so doesn't do anything more with the car. Second one just drove from home to work.
I wish I could find real statistics on all this. I'm looking for a hot hatch and according to everyone's anecdotal evidence they all suck for reliability. I was leaning towards Focus ecoboost but yesterday an old-school mechanic friend of mine said stay away from ecoboost. Subaru is being hammered in this thread and VW probably gets the most hate for reliability.
FWIW my experience: '04 STi bought new and now 12 years old. Cobb stage 2 for 10+ years. Absolutely no problems except for wear items, peeling hood paint, and various interior rattles/squeaks I tracked down and fixed with silicone. Extremely happy with the experience and the resale value it retained. Honestly I could pay for an engine and still come out ahead of many cars bought for similar money in '03.
In reply to jv8:
I'd also like to see statistics, but it's hard to ignore the sheer volume of anecdotal evidence. Also look at the market for EJ25 short blocks. There are numerous places offering new factory short blocks, and new short blocks with upgraded pistons. You don't see that, especially on that scale, for most other cars. The factory tune is also a huge factor, and they got worse in some years. The preloaded access port tunes are safer than the factory tune.
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