Effects of compromise

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

For a 14 second car that's pretty good.  You might want to just plug some numbers into an online calculator and get and idea of what times look like.  Realize that they tend to be optimistic.

That's a very good question.  Is the autocross 15 seconds long on average if the drag race is 15 seconds long?  Both are 50% of the time. Unless you do a 16 second autocross. And a 14 second drag race. ( or visa Versa ) 

The autocross is reasonably long. ~45-60 seconds if I remember correctly from 2020. 45-50 seconds for most people on the pointy end of the results.

In reply to MrJoshua :

Clearly that's my answer I'll bias towards autocross and let the drag race be whatever it is. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Well there's more to that.  I've found that the average time spread in the drags and the autocross is about equal.  Meaning fastest drag cars are about 10 seconds faster than the slowest and the FTD is about 10 seconds faster than the slowest car.  So that tells me that both events need equal attention when building the car.  

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

Since the time of the drag racing is short compared to the autocross, I would  expect the results are weighted towards the autocross.  At least with a magazine weighted towards road racing over drag racing. I would expect it to be?  

In reply to frenchyd :

No the autocross time is added to the drag time to get the dynamic time.  The fastest dynamic time gets 100 points.  Then the times below that get a percentage of the time depending on how fast they were.

Again you can read the rules here:

https://2000challenge.com/rules

If you can build your jag into an 11 second or faster car, in the top 5 or so raw times of actual cars at local autocrosses, and make it pretty, it would be a good candidate for a podium finish at the challenge. It would also be a damn impressive feat for a first time challenger.

In reply to MrJoshua :

He can't because he refuses to do a cage.  There's a lot of little things like this week looking over NHRA rules I realized I needed a SFI trans/clutch shield if I wanted to go under 11.  Well that takes me out of half budget.  So did the math (aka went to an online calculator) and started backing down on my HP goals.  That lead to me spending less on my engine.  It's not as simple as a new Challenger thinks. 

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to MrJoshua :

Lots of meaningful stuff.......

and:  It's not as simple as a new Challenger thinks. 

I agree completely. IIRC doesn't the time just default to the limit of the rule? Ex: if the rule says faster than 11.99 requires a cage and you go 11.0 without a cage, you get an 11.99 score? If so, I think the math would probably still put you on the podium. 

In reply to MrJoshua :

No, the run doesn't count and you may be barred from running again.

Your safety prep level will limit your drag race times. To discourage bonzai runs, cars that run quicker than their safety prep level allows will not be given a time for that pass, and may be barred from future drag passes.

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

If I thought I could do a time fast enough to require a cage, I'd do one but it would probably cost me  the rest of my budget.

    If I want to race it Champ car ( Chumpcar) I'd need a cage anyway.    There is $220  in the budget to grind the cams to something a little more respectable that according to my engine analyzer is worth 100 extra horsepower.  But I suspect without those cams I won't need the cage. 
  I'm reasonably sure I have a set of Isky XM 3's from my XKE around here.  You can't tell them from stock since they are ground on stock cams. So the numbers are still there.  But cheating isn't my style. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I don't have time to look it up right now but you admitted cheating previously in the turbo XJS you built.

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

No the autocross time is added to the drag time to get the dynamic time.  The fastest dynamic time gets 100 points.  Then the times below that get a percentage of the time depending on how fast they were.

Again you can read the rules here:

https://2000challenge.com/rules

I read those and as I understand it. If I did a 10.00 quarter mile time ( I know but just humor me for a moment) And did a 45 second time in the auto cross. That gets me a dynamic time of 55 seconds. 

If the Nelsons get a 9:00 second time and a 47 second autocross that gives them a 56 second dynamic time. 
  
Assume we both get a 12 point Concourse 

In this case do I win?  

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I don't have time to look it up right now but you admitted cheating previously in the turbo XJS you built.

The rules back at the start of Chump car was $500 dollar cars.   I actually documented I was under the $500 limit.  When they came here to Brainerd, I talked to their tech inspectors about my car and they warned me about handicap laps and car crushing.  I was given the impression they were pretty much capable of imposing whatever penalty they thought applied.   Now maybe they were kidding or maybe they were serious.  I honestly don't know if my kludged up Jag would have lasted 7 hours. But I for sure didn't want it crushed.
So we didn't enter. I sold it to one of the guys who helped me get it ready. Turns out it's still running. He occasionally comes to the local drive in with it. 

frenchyd said:

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

No the autocross time is added to the drag time to get the dynamic time.  The fastest dynamic time gets 100 points.  Then the times below that get a percentage of the time depending on how fast they were.

Again you can read the rules here:

https://2000challenge.com/rules

I read those and as I understand it. If I did a 10.00 quarter mile time ( I know but just humor me for a moment) And did a 45 second time in the auto cross. That gets me a dynamic time of 55 seconds. 

If the Nelsons get a 9:00 second time and a 47 second autocross that gives them a 56 second dynamic time. 
  
Assume we both get a 12 point Concourse 

In this case do I win?  

Ok so I don't understand.  You can build a race car but can't add up simple addition?

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

What did I get wrong?  

In reply to frenchyd :

So again the rules are here:

https://2000challenge.com/rules

In your example you would have 112 points and the Nelsons would have 110.214 points.  Yes you would win but you kinda maybe shoulda known that when you asked the question. 

Edit - Assuming you two are the only two competitors.  But if not then still doesn't matter because your dynamic score would be greater than them and you both get 12 points.  Yeah faster car wins in that case.

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

Hmm I checked my math before I asked the question 

  But I think you have it wrong..  the top dynamic score is 100. And the second place gets the percentage of 100

Ok I see you as total top dynamic score.  I see the Nelsons as second.  You explain your math.  

IDK maybe I'm a DA?

In reply to frenchyd :

Stampie has the math right ,assuming that your 55 second combined time is the fastest time overall. You get 100 dynamic points for dynamic FTD, plus 12 concours points for a total of 112. The Nelsons get the same 12 concours points, plus (55/56)x 100 for a total of 110.214

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

You and Stampie are right.  My error was I was just thinking about the Dynamic points. 
Ah well, I ain't a gonna win no how.  

In reply to frenchyd :

That's a silly assumption. Every number you've suggested is unrealistic. 
 

Don't compare yourself to the Nelsons. They are drag racers. Their formula will make no sense to you. 
 

Look at a competitor like Travis (Maschinenbau). He won as a strong autocrosser (with a solid effort in concord and a 12 second drag)

Stampie (FS) said:

In reply to MrJoshua :

He can't because he refuses to do a cage.  There's a lot of little things like this week looking over NHRA rules I realized I needed a SFI trans/clutch shield if I wanted to go under 11.  Well that takes me out of half budget.  So did the math (aka went to an online calculator) and started backing down on my HP goals.  That lead to me spending less on my engine.  It's not as simple as a new Challenger thinks. 

The clutch/bellhousing shield is a really simple piece of bent metal with some holes. Not big $ at all 

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

Gets a lot more expensive when it's SFI rated for a Jaguar. 

All in the regs is:

or must be equipped with a flywheel shield made of 1/4-inch minimum thickness steel plate, securely mounted to the frame or frame structure and completely surrounding the bellhousing 360 degrees. The flywheel shield shall not be bolted to either the bellhousing or engine. The flywheel shield must extend forward to a point at least 1 inch ahead of the flywheel and 1 inch to the rear of the rotating components of the clutch and pressure plate

The way I have understood the regs is that only the alum flywheels needed to be SFI, the steel ones don't. This is superseded by class regs, which wouldn't exist for the challenge. The wording is a bit E36 M3, like most of the NHRA regs:

the use of stock-type cast iron flywheels and/or pressure plates prohibited. The use of aluminum flywheels in Top Fuel and Funny Car is prohibited. Units meeting SFI Spec 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, or 1.5 mandatory except as noted in Class Requirements.

I think this is how it's always been interpreted as the clutches for my cars only have alum with SFI spec and steel without (and those are the ones everoyne uses running into the mid 8s)