GameboyRMH wrote: Also "e-diffs" are pretty much maintenance free, they only wear on the brake pads like crazy.
FTFY
When you live in winter wounderland, those e-diffs/traction control can really mess-up the pads quickly if you always rely on them. Still cheaper than gernading a diff, but I've had non-car-people be very surprized how their brakes got all used up in a single winter.
fanfoy wrote:GameboyRMH wrote: Also "e-diffs" are pretty much maintenance free, they only wear on the brake pads like crazy.FTFY When you live in winter wounderland, those e-diffs/traction control can really mess-up the pads quickly if you always rely on them. Still cheaper than gernading a diff, but I've had non-car-people be very surprized how their brakes got all used up in a single winter.
Yep my truck has it and it goes through pads at an alarming rate. If I put cheap pads in it they will not last a year. Good pads last about 2 years
Even though I realize it doesn't make much sense, but it annoys me but the few accidents I have heard of caused by driver aid failures annoy me much more than the probably much larger number of accidents that they could have prevented.
Don't really need a car nanny... but if there's a French maid version I'm in. 
spitfirebill wrote:Ashyukun wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: Our newest (F-35s and F-22s) are also rather dynamically unstable too IIRC. It's what makes them so maneuverable but also requires a computer monitoring and adjusting things to keep them going where you want them to go.IIRC the F-16 was like this. It's why so many crashed early on.
The F-16 is unstable, a computer is necessary for it to fly.
In a daily driven car, I don't notice them 99% of the time, and the times I do notice them they actually help.
We got blind spot monitoring in my wife's car. I've come to enjoy it. I check my mirrors and blind spots, but one of the great things about Raleigh is people who drive without their lights on at night.
I look around, think that it is clear, put on my turn signal, get ready to look again and the car goes "beep beep beep" to let me know there is some moron riding in my blind spot that I didn't see.
The car also has traction/stability control, which can come in handy with 274 HP going to the front wheels sometimes.
That said, I have traction/stability control in my RX-8. I took an autocross lap, felt the car fighting me, turned it all of the way off and picked up 2 seconds on my next run.
I guess I am in the camp that they can work and can help sometimes, but being able to turn them off for when you want to drive in anger on an approved off-road course is also a requirement.
Even though I realize it doesn't make much sense, but it annoys me but the few accidents I have heard of caused by driver aid failures annoy me much more than the probably much larger number of accidents that they could have prevented.
Well, the first step is acknowledging you have a problem. 
That's true I suppose. For a couple specific examples, the woman who slammed her Excursion passenger side first into the left lane guard rail on the freeway in front of me in the rain compared to the Audi a4 wagon my friends mom used to drive having the traction control put the car backwards off the side of the freeway though a fence on a clear dry day in a straight section of freeway.
You could buy a defective tire too. Same result, potentially.
I forgot to mention how much I hate the ABS on my Forester. It is old ground, but it is one of the worst ABS systems I've ever encountered.
If you apply the brakes hard and there is any bumpiness to the road you simply will not stop. This problem exists 100% of the time in rallycross, so I just pull the fuse so I can get the thing to rotate.
I'm guessing that the Forte's TCS/ESC wouldn't be as bad on an auto car. I'm just glad it's easily turned off.
I havent raced many of the 'newer' (which is like.. 1993 and up to me!) cars i've owned but i did pull the fuse to autocross my 1996 Dodge Avenger.
Brett_Murphy wrote: That said, I have traction/stability control in my RX-8. I took an autocross lap, felt the car fighting me, turned it all of the way off and picked up 2 seconds on my next run.
I see that as a good thing. If your TC/SC was seeing inputs like you would generate on an autocross track on the road, I would damn well hope the car thought you were in trouble and was trying to correct it. The only time you should see autocross like inputs on the road IS IN AN EMERGENCY, either that or the drive is being an A hole (not point my finger at you here BTW)
Brett_Murphy wrote: I forgot to mention how much I hate the ABS on my Forester. It is old ground, but it is one of the worst ABS systems I've ever encountered. If you apply the brakes hard and there is any bumpiness to the road you simply will not stop. This problem exists 100% of the time in rallycross, so I just pull the fuse so I can get the thing to rotate.
Yeah, that early Subaru ABS system is awful. I am baffled that it got out of pre-production testing like that, not to mention being produced and sold for several years.
The first driver-aid-workaround I ever did was an "off" switch for a friend's Outback ABS, really a necessary mod for a snow-driven Subaru at the time. Took about 30 mins and less than $5 of parts.
The ABS on my mom's bugeye GD seems way too conservative, either that or the tires suck big time but it's hard to tell because that car gives less feedback than a good simulator rig. The brakes on the car are very sensitive and that might trick you into thinking they're powerful, but if you floor the pedal, after the initial sharp hit of braking power it just sort of oozes to a stop.
ShadowSix wrote: I've been saying for years that the sooner we get self-driving cars the better. My Google smartphone isn't perfect, but I trust it a lot further than I trust the serial nose picker/text messager in the next lane.
Totally agree with this
In reply to wspohn:
Exactly right. While on a race track,I'm able to drift my 2012 Corvette GS with all of the nannies engaged. So as long as I'm within the deadbands I'm okay which also means you have to be a smooth driver to stay within the deadbands.
When the track is wet I like having the nannies turned on and that is when I usually feel them kick in.
Not really bandaided over bad mechanical design, just aids to help those that think they know how to drive to keep from crashing.
Brett_Murphy wrote: In a daily driven car, I don't notice them 99% of the time, and the times I do notice them they actually help. We got blind spot monitoring in my wife's car. I've come to enjoy it. I check my mirrors and blind spots, but one of the great things about Raleigh is people who drive without their lights on at night. I look around, think that it is clear, put on my turn signal, get ready to look again and the car goes "beep beep beep" to let me know there is some moron riding in my blind spot that I didn't see. The car also has traction/stability control, which can come in handy with 274 HP going to the front wheels sometimes. That said, I have traction/stability control in my RX-8. I took an autocross lap, felt the car fighting me, turned it all of the way off and picked up 2 seconds on my next run. I guess I am in the camp that they can work and can help sometimes, but being able to turn them off for when you want to drive in anger on an approved off-road course is also a requirement.
I agree with this. These nannies are good failsafes. Having a blind spot monitor doesn't mean you should stop turning your head or checking your mirrors when you change lanes, but it does help if you miss something or you make a mistake.
I don't rely on them, and I don't think people should rely on them for average getting around. Collision avoidance systems are not an excuse to never use your brakes, and I think car makers would be unlikely to promote a feature that way. Instead, they're useful in dangerous situations that you can't control. Like GPS navigation, people realize that it's sometimes wrong, so I don't think many people drive with 100% trust in these aids. It's just a supplement.
If that means the dad in the Sienna won't change lanes on top of me when I'm driving in a small, hard to see Miata, I'm totally OK with that.
Most nannys I can understand, but the one I can't are daytime running lamps.
If you want lights on the car when its moving, have the regular lights turn on when power is on. No need for a separate system, especially one with no rear facing lights.
I see so many cars at night with the day lamps on, completely oblivious to the fact that any one behind them has no idea they are there until they plow into into the back of them. At least they developed radar guided braking to prevent such an issue...
Here's my problem with all the latest nanny items....
36802-SZN-A01.......RADAR SUB-ASSY..... MSRP $5780.00
It's located just behind the grille. What gets smashed in a front end collision? You guessed it. So now, your $2500 body shop estimate just jumped to $8k because of ONE. PART.
Bobzilla wrote: Here's my problem with all the latest nanny items.... 36802-SZN-A01.......RADAR SUB-ASSY..... MSRP $5780.00 It's located just behind the grille. What gets smashed in a front end collision? You guessed it. So now, your $2500 body shop estimate just jumped to $8k because of ONE. PART.
In 5 years when every car has them $6k will be $200.
I’m a proponent of most ‘nanny’ aids, I think road safety speaks for itself with de-creased accidents (ABS, Stability control, TPMS etc.) and reduced fatalities or injuries when accidents do occur (air bags, seat belts, increased crumple ones/door bars, higher noses for pedestrians etc.) But that doesn’t mean I can’t have a little bitch about poor execution of some systems
Yesterday I had my second TPMS failure on my Volvo. Not an issue with it reading wrong or anything like that, but the crappy quality or spec that Volvo has for the part. I had a low tire warning on Saturday, topped it up then Sunday low again? WTF? Go take the cap off and the whole of the end of the stem shears off and all the air comes out. berkeley. That’s E36 M3ty material or corrosion selection on a 5 year old part, not anything wrong with mandating cars to have TPMS. I’m now waiting for Belle Tire to get me another TPMS sensor.
Also this weekend Saturday, snowmagedon arrived, well a paltry 4” The Volvo has stability/traction control, but it’s a terribly calibrated system. In Ice and snow the first thing I do (or even my wife does when she drives it) is turn it off. It’s so hyper over sensitive that the merest hint of slip and it kills forward momentum meaning in very slippery conditions you just can’t move. So you have to turn it off to get out of our street. Again, nothing wrong with mandating the technology, just the application and calibration. With today’s cars I think these things are essential, especially for young / old / inexperienced etc. drivers. Let’s face it, as we all know the todays Camry’s are more powerful with more tire on the road than a late 80’s Ferrari.
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