A ZJ Grand Cherokee just ran 9.79 at 137.6 MpH.
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Ffacebook%2Fvideos%2F329096444437156%2F&width=500&show_text=false&height=281
What a great time to be alive. Also, get off my lawn!
yup, even the mods are getting faster at fixing thread titles!
PRL Motorsports has a new Civic Si running in the 10s.....that's pretty impressive for a 1.5T
The original Countach went 0-60 in 6.8 seconds.
In reply to pinchvalve :
in it's defense, that's a lot of hair to accelerate.
I wonder how much of the gap between modern cars and vintage performance cars comes down to tires....how fast would that stock Countach be on a new set of R-comps?
Oooh, editorial staff, you there? This could make an interesting article...
psteav said:I wonder how much of the gap between modern cars and vintage performance cars comes down to tires....how fast would that stock Countach be on a new set of R-comps?
Oooh, editorial staff, you there? This could make an interesting article...
How much quicker would the drivetrain components explode you mean?
If they hold up, it would be an interesting test.
I think I remember seeing something recently in this mag about a 1969 Charger Daytona vs a 2004 Honda Odyssey at autocross and the Daytona got stomped.
Edit: June 2019 grm page 48-49.
It doesn't mention tires specifically but it says both vehicles are stone stock. (I hope that means the tires on the charger weren't 50 years old...) They did say that to even out the weight they had to add weight to the Odyssey by adding passengers.
Even better, that ZJ ran that 9.79 on a 150 shot, not boosted. This makes me want to build a motor for mine... 
Just out of curiosity the Tib was a 7.0 0-60 in 2002 (03 MY)and the quarter at 15.6@86mph. That was Hyundai's fast coupe at the time. The new version, the Veloster N is a 5.9 0-60, 14.0@101mph. so in 16 years they've entered truly fast car territory.
Porsche 356 vs Jag XKE vs Odyssey: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/soccer-moms-revenge/
Into the 9s in a Grand Cherokee is insanity.
There's also the Macan GTS vs 944 Turbo.
I think what amuses me most about all of these comparisons is the bottom end of the speed scale. Economy cars are still roughly the same speed as they were 20-25 years ago (~8s to 60, 16s 1/4) and many of them are slower at autocross especially in modded form.
My 2012 Mustang GT does 0-60 in 5 seconds, still gets 25-26mpg on the highway if I'm careful, scored well in crash tests, hits 150mph like it's nothing, etc. Go back 10 years, a 2002 Mustang GT won't do any of those. 10 more years, a 1992 Mustang, and it's practically prehistoric. I imagine the 2022 Mustang GT will probably have 500 horsepower and be able to push 28-29mpg, and do 0-60 fast enough to hurt. I think we're in a sort of golden age of cars right now. Technology is really making for some crazy fast vehicles. Ten years ago electric cars were kind of a joke, and now Pininfarina is getting ready to release a 1,900 horsepower supercar.
rslifkin said:Even better, that ZJ ran that 9.79 on a 150 shot, not boosted. This makes me want to build a motor for mine...
If that’s the case, what’s the reasoning for the front bumper exhaust exit?
ProDarwin said:
I think what amuses me most about all of these comparisons is the bottom end of the speed scale. Economy cars are still roughly the same speed as they were 20-25 years ago (~8s to 60, 16s 1/4) and many of them are slower at autocross especially in modded form.
My understanding is that they’ve gained weight because of crash resistance structural increases and other safety systems... combining to increase weight. So, power has gone up, but only to the point of covering the weight penalty.
sleepyhead the buffalo said:ProDarwin said:
I think what amuses me most about all of these comparisons is the bottom end of the speed scale. Economy cars are still roughly the same speed as they were 20-25 years ago (~8s to 60, 16s 1/4) and many of them are slower at autocross especially in modded form.
My understanding is that they’ve gained weight because of crash resistance structural increases and other safety systems... combining to increase weight. So, power has gone up, but only to the point of covering the weight penalty.
True, and they've also gained weight due to increased height.
But yeah, in 20 years a Camry gained 250lbs and 70-100hp. A Corolla gained 400lbs and 12-20hp. A Camaro gained 22lb (probably more on the high-spec model) and somewhere between 70 and A WHOLE LOT of hp.
It would be really interesting to see someone do an article that compares accelerations/cornering g's published in road tests of cars in the 60's and 70's, find some good examples of those cars still extent, put some modern sticky rubber on them, and publish the data.
As far as the Dodge Daytona vs Honda Odyssey test goes: How about putting them both on a Super Speedway and give the Dodge a shot at redeeming itself in its preferred environment?
infinitenexus said:My 2012 Mustang GT does 0-60 in 5 seconds, still gets 25-26mpg on the highway if I'm careful, scored well in crash tests, hits 150mph like it's nothing, etc. Go back 10 years, a 2002 Mustang GT won't do any of those. 10 more years, a 1992 Mustang, and it's practically prehistoric. I imagine the 2022 Mustang GT will probably have 500 horsepower and be able to push 28-29mpg, and do 0-60 fast enough to hurt.
That'll be pretty good, for an autonomous, electric, SUV.
ProDarwin said:Economy cars are still roughly the same speed as they were 20-25 years ago (~8s to 60, 16s 1/4) and many of them are slower at autocross especially in modded form.
1999 Toyota Corolla LE - 0-60 in 10.2 seconds
2019 Toyota Corolla Hatchback - 0-60 in 7.4 seconds
I think that most economy cars have gotten significantly faster in the last 20 years, at least in a straight line. In addition, my daughter's new Fiesta SE would probably smoke any economy car from 20 years ago even in an autocross; it's a great handling car.
infinitenexus said:My 2012 Mustang GT does 0-60 in 5 seconds, still gets 25-26mpg on the highway if I'm careful, scored well in crash tests, hits 150mph like it's nothing, etc. Go back 10 years, a 2002 Mustang GT won't do any of those. 10 more years, a 1992 Mustang, and it's practically prehistoric. I imagine the 2022 Mustang GT will probably have 500 horsepower and be able to push 28-29mpg, and do 0-60 fast enough to hurt. I think we're in a sort of golden age of cars right now. Technology is really making for some crazy fast vehicles. Ten years ago electric cars were kind of a joke, and now Pininfarina is getting ready to release a 1,900 horsepower supercar.
Golden age for that vector of power to economy, yes. Design, no. Interiors, they are in a different dimension for some manufactures and not in a great way.
Google up the old TV show Car & Track with Bud Lindemann they are fun to watch to get the real vibe of "back in the day."
There are tons of them out there.
sleepyhead the buffalo said:If that’s the case, what’s the reasoning for the front bumper exhaust exit?
I'm pretty sure it was done for simpler exhaust routing. Header clearance and such is pretty tight on a ZJ, so he went forward and out the sides. IIRC, the guy's brother has an also fairly quick boosted ZJ.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
Bumper/fender dumped nitrous cars have been a thing for a while now. I've seen few Fox bodies with headers going forward with 90 degree bends out through the fenders.
I would like to see a stock na Miata vs. a stock ND, base models, and same tire and size. Could be interesting. Just a simple AX course too.
jstein77 said:ProDarwin said:Economy cars are still roughly the same speed as they were 20-25 years ago (~8s to 60, 16s 1/4) and many of them are slower at autocross especially in modded form.
1999 Toyota Corolla LE - 0-60 in 10.2 seconds
2019 Toyota Corolla Hatchback - 0-60 in 7.4 seconds
I think that most economy cars have gotten significantly faster in the last 20 years, at least in a straight line. In addition, my daughter's new Fiesta SE would probably smoke any economy car from 20 years ago even in an autocross; it's a great handling car.
That's auto vs. manual. I would suggest these are more realistic numbers: 8.6, 17.0 vs 8.2, 16.5. Note the dip over the years... there is no clear trend of performance increasing.
I can think of a number of econoboxes I would take over the non-ST Fiesta for autox from the late 90s: Civic, Saturn, Neon, Protege, Focus, etc. But... your daughter's Fiesta SE is banned from autox so it doesn't matter 
As a vintage racer I'll throw in this; a fully race prepped Datsun 510 with a national championship driver on board turns lap times right around the lap record for (wait for it) Spec Miata. At some of the faster track in my area they only manage a second or so, if a Miata had 200hp it would no contest.
Besides racing my Datsun 1200 I've also driven quite a few Spec Miatas of various generations, the Miata is much easier to drive fast, has way better feed back and generally more fun. I like the Datsun because it's a bit unruly. I've owned the 1200 for 35 years and that is the main reason I continue to run it.
My 1200 is usually around 8-12 seconds slower than said Spec Miata lap record and I can tell you I'm working twice as hard as I would racing a Miata and that's with the Datsun being on 0 tread wear tires.
I also end up driving a lot of modern cars while instructing at track days; you can't even remotely compare say a 90's Camaro to a 2019 edition.
I love old cars but moderns really are (for most folks) easier, faster and more fun. The ride nicer too.
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