Fast, reliable, and cheap... Pick any two.

So here's a topic I'm sure has never been brought up. Looking towards getting a weekend/HPDE track car.

Budget: $10k for vehicle and mods

Usage: Secondary vehicle. Plan to run HPDE's with it. Not ready to have a stripped out dedicated track car just yet, so I'd like it to be street legal. Maybe even something I could drive to work occasionally (ie, keep the AC).

Given enough room in the budget, I can get an open trailer for going to the track. (DD is an F150)

What I'm torn on it the balance between cost, mileage, age, and reliability.

An older car (late 80's) already has higher mileage. A newer car, to be in my price range, also has higher mileage. So the question becomes, if both cars have 120k miles, which is more reliable, old or new?

The older cars are typically simpler, but even if well maintained, every bushing is dried out and every single part is 25 years old. Newer engines are arguably more reliable, but there are a lot more electronics to go bad.

So here are the usual suspects. Give me your thoughts.

1. Porsche 944 NA. - Can be had cheap. Good looking. Low on HP.

2. Porsche 944 Turbo - Pricey in good condition. Parts are pricey. No way I could resist turning up the boost. How reliable is a 951 with 120k miles and turning up the boost?

3) Porsche Boxster - Earlier models coming into the upper end of my price range. Not a convertible fan but I've read good reviews on the handling. I've also read about some engine problems.

4) Miata - Cheap, reliable, great handling. Low HP and .... it's a Miata. I know, I know, to judge a book by it's cover. And if it were a track only toy, I might could do it. But I just couldn't feel cool taking my wife to the movies in a Miata. Does that make me a bad person?

5) Mustang. - Not a fan of Fox bodies. So something maybe +97 and newer. Mustangs are heavy though, and not know for turning ability. Handling can be remedied by a plethora of aftermarket parts. Lots of used part available, and cheap. The 4.6L is pretty solid but a pricey motor to build. Factory, the GT's are under powered considering their weight.

6) RX7 - Gen1's are ugly and no HP, but lightweight, simple, and cheap. I just don't want to deal with a carb. There were a few years for the Gen1 GSL-SE with the 13B. Still ugly but FI and more HP. I like the Gen II models for aesthetics, but how reliable is a high mileage rotary motor?

7) Mini Cooper S - Despite being FWD, I really like these for some reason. Upper end of the price range though. Aftermarket parts seem to be a bit pricey.

8) S2000 - Again, not a convertible guy, but they're good looking. Bit too much of a ricer following but I'd drive one. Really gotta rev the motor hard to get the HP though. The ones in my price bracket would be high mileage though. How reliable are those motors?

9) - M3 - I'm just not a bimmer guy.

I'm open to and appreciate all input. Cheers.

In reply to bigmackloud:

I'm terribly biased, but Neon ACR? 10k will go a long way. I know, I've done it.

10k into a Miata should be able to supply you with all 3 as well.

9) Is fast reliable and cheap when it comes to track cars.

You already know the right answer, you just need to work on your self perception. I take my wife to the movies in a Miata and we both enjoy it.

Reading your post, you want the MINI and are hoping we'll tell you to get it. Although if your self image can't handle a Miata, is a MINI really acceptable?

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

Agreed, and slickdizzy's E46 330i would make a good dual purpose car as well.

Keith Tanner wrote: You already know the right answer, you just need to work on your self perception. I take my wife to the movies in a Miata and we both enjoy it. Reading your post, you want the MINI and are hoping you'll tell us to get it. Although if your self image can't handle a Miata, is a MINI really acceptable?

I take my wife to lunch in a Miata with a roll bar, harnesses, fixed back, R-comps and squeaky dusty track brakes. But most days it's the stock NC Miata.

Who the Berkeley cares what people driving down the street who you will never meet think?

Figuring you can buy a clean NA in $2500 range, another $6-7k will essentially make a quick, dead nuts reliable track car with super cheap consumables.

I have a Honda S2000 and think it fits all your requirements. Unless it has been beat to death, that motor will be good for 200k or more. Mine has 74k and is hard to tell from new.

Keith Tanner wrote: You already know the right answer, you just need to work on your self perception. I take my wife to the movies in a Miata and we both enjoy it. Reading your post, you want the MINI and are hoping you'll tell us to get it. Although if your self image can't handle a Miata, is a MINI really acceptable?

Haha, you're right, but for some reason I really like the Mini. Even though it isn't really a "manly" car.

I should offer a disclaimer: I just sold my 615rwhp Mustang GT. It was a street beast but was just too much of the wrong thing for track usage. But I'm having HP withdraws. I miss the growl of the V8.

I had almost convinced my self that the 951 was the answer. But boy parts are pricey.

4 or 9.

Keith Tanner wrote: You already know the right answer, you just need to work on your self perception. I take my wife to the movies in a Miata and we both enjoy it. Reading your post, you want the MINI and are hoping you'll tell us to get it. Although if your self image can't handle a Miata, is a MINI really acceptable?

This x1000. I've got an NA Miata. My wife and I go out in it all the time, and the last time I checked, my "goods" were still in tact and hadn't shrunk... I've also owned a Mini Cooper S with no associated shrinkage.

I know hp is addicting. I've been where you are. Before I had kids, some of my toys included: 375hp FFR Cobra (only weighed 2100lbs), Viper GTS, supercharged Mustang, C5. I'd be lying if I said I never wished for more power. But that said, I have just as much fun driving my Miata as I did in any of my high power cars. Sure, they may blow your doors off down the straights, but there's something really cool about being able to crawl right up their tailpipe in the corner...or even pass them. The look on their face is priceless.

Miata would be my first choice. Mustang isn't a bad choice either....if you can get past their image issues.

10k is a pretty healthy budget.

You can score a nice C4 Corvette (LT1 6spd) with plenty left over for upgrades/consumables.

I would strongly suggest C5 front brakes. Not expensive to do, and cuts your consumable costs alot. Get brake cooling ducts!

Miata, S2k or M3. A modded Miata is probably the best bang for the buck here.

Well, I'll take Fast and Cheap.

I wonder how many people recognize that window? I love the things.. And at this point it's hard to argue that you cant make them handle... for less than $2000.. counting the vehicle...

Miata with LS swap. There was a NA with LS1/t56, diff radiator, swap kit, roll bar, etc, etc, etc on CL in Tallahassee that was close to this budget.....some assembly required

I vote Mustang. I like torque and solid rear axles. (Maybe I'm broken inside?)

The 4.6 is anything but pricey to build. Have you done any research into any of the numerous companies that build those things?

Sky_Render wrote: I vote Mustang. I like torque and solid rear axles. (Maybe I'm broken inside?) The 4.6 is anything *but* pricey to build. Have you done any research into any of the numerous companies that build those things?

True.

OP needs to decide if he can afford the running costs of higher HP, heavier car that will go through more expensive tires/brakes on a much more regular basis.

I think a lot of the things that are said about the Miata will apply to the MINI as well, especially with a few tweaks to make it handle. And it is going to be a more practical car. Although one of the owners of FM has a MINI and has taken it to the track just once - she runs the Miatas instead as she prefers them.

S2000 would give you the best balance of speed/fun with the least amount of headache/cost of anything that list IMO. They go well north of 100K with zero issues, typical Honda reliability.

Porsche Boxster/944 - Cost of entry is cheap but any parts you may need come with a nice healthy Porsche tax

Miata - Sometimes it's not the answer ( )

Mustang. - You summed these up pretty well

RX7 - not really all that modern or comfortable for a car that would be kept a street/weekend car that wouldn't be getting stripped out.

Mini Cooper S - pain to work on, some poorly designed parts that WILL break (when not if) like the plastic water neck with integrated thermostat

M3 - expensive maintenance and so so reliability, great handling/driving cars right out of the box though.

Vigo wrote: I wonder how many people recognize that window?

Gotta be a Jeep Cherokee right? Deep deep down inside, I'm a Jeep guy. This is first time in 13 years (since I was 16) that I've been w/o a Jeep. (XJ, CJ5)

As for the 4.6L not being pricey to build. I think that depends on what you're goals are. In my case, getting 600+ to the rear wheels from a 2V didn't come cheap. Granted, I had a run of bad luck and had to build my motor twice in 2k miles (machine shop didn't get the clearance on the mains right the first time). So that took some of the fun out of it.

Any specific comments on the pros/cons on the reliability of any of the listed vehicles? (hidden costs/problems/etc)

e_pie wrote: S2000 would give you the best balance of speed/fun with the least amount of headache/cost of anything that list IMO. They go well north of 100K with zero issues, typical Honda reliability.

I like the S2K, but I'm not sure they fit my budget. Just browsing CL, I found an '03 with 110k for $10.5K. Leaves no budget for any mods. For street use, I agree the S2k motor is pretty reliable. Would you feel comfortable beating a higher mileage unit on the track though? (Honest question)

I was a service advisor at a Honda dealer for several years. We really didn't get many S2K's, even fewer with high miles. The ones we did get with problems had always been over-revved and bent the valves.

How rare are the hardtops?

M3: Newer is more complicated, requires BMW parts, German

RX7: Rotary engine, and not the newest one either

Mini: Very cramped engine bay, requires BMW parts, German

Boxster: Mid-engined, requires Porsche parts, German

944: Requires some Porsche parts but have a decent aftermarket, German

944 Turbo: Same as above but with the added "fun" of a turbo

Miata: Simple and reliable.

Mustang: Simple and reliable.

S2k: Has a finnicky emissions-related air pump that costs a lot, otherwise simple for a modern car, and reliable

V8 swap RX7?

Kenny_McCormic wrote: V8 swap RX7?

A V8 swap in the RX7, Miata, or 240Z would all be a blast. But I spent more time chasing problems with my Mustang than I did driving it. I spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on the 'Stang and rarely got to really enjoy driving it like I wanted. I'm burned out on a "project" car right now. I miss the days of doing fun simple mods, haha.