Shaun
Reader
1/26/10 12:32 p.m.
Maybe this is a re-post of sorts:
Ferrari is engaged in a fairly ferocious battle with the few other makes in their rarefied category of very expensive, very high tech, and very fast automobiles. Electro/mechanically controlled gear boxes are more expensive, very high tech, and make the car go faster. Ferrari might be less interested in what an enthusiast considers a pure driving experience and more interested in competing in their chosen market successfully and profitably.
I searched for Ferrari's mission statement for a clue and could not find one. I find this thread quite interesting myself... I think Lotus or Atom might be more interested in the ultimate driver experience and that is what drives their design.
Duke wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
Arbitrary is arbitrary.
You just pretend that it's a big deal to make you feel better about it. It's fun to YOU. That's the point. Your definition may be less fun to some, since it's not enough, or less fun to others, since it's too much.
Hey, like I say, as long as you can feel superior to others, that's all that really matters, doesn't it, since your arbitrary line is so much more important? 
E-
Wow.
You {~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~} My point.
I give up. You can feel superior to me too if you like.
Didn't miss it at all- you define what fun is, and clearly think that shifting an H gate is much more fun than manually playing with the spark advance. So much so that you think your "more fun" is some how a more valid arbitrary line than any other- else you would not argue it at all.
I don't feel superior, I just don't get why this line is SO deep. that's it. I'm not the one who is trying to justify my line by saying that X is more fun than doing Y, so that's where the line should be.
And I'm trying to point out that having DSG does not mean the Ferrari is no longer a Sports Car, as many here seem to think it does. That's it.
Eric
Wait till we all have electric cars with only 1 forward gear and 100% available torque at 0 rpm a la Tesla Roadster.
Will those be fun?
alfadriver wrote:
Duke wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
Arbitrary is arbitrary.
You just pretend that it's a big deal to make you feel better about it. It's fun to YOU. That's the point. Your definition may be less fun to some, since it's not enough, or less fun to others, since it's too much.
Hey, like I say, as long as you can feel superior to others, that's all that really matters, doesn't it, since your arbitrary line is so much more important?
E-
Wow.
You {~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~} My point.
I give up. You can feel superior to me too if you like.
Didn't miss it at all- you define what fun is, and clearly think that shifting an H gate is much more fun than manually playing with the spark advance. So much so that you think your "more fun" is some how a more valid arbitrary line than any other- else you would not argue it at all.
I don't feel superior, I just don't get why this line is SO deep. that's it. I'm not the one who is trying to justify my line by saying that X is more fun than doing Y, so that's where the line should be.
And I'm trying to point out that having DSG does not mean the Ferrari is no longer a Sports Car, as many here seem to think it does. That's it.
Eric
Right, but that's an opinion. And one that i disagree with. But on the flip side, i haven't considered Ferraris sports cars for awhile.
The point that he's making is that you can call a sports car what you want, and so can he. He's not wrong for saying it, and neither are you. So really, neither of you have anything to argue about. So let the dead horse stay dead.
killjoy7 wrote:
Wait till we all have electric cars with only 1 forward gear and 100% available torque at 0 rpm a la Tesla Roadster.
Will those be fun?
You bet your ass they will.
93celicaGT2 wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
Hey, like I say, as long as you can feel superior to others, that's all that really matters, doesn't it, since your arbitrary line is so much more important?
E-
I recognize that line... that is how Alfa ends many an argument. Its his "I know you are but what am I?" grand slam. For ways to defend against this formidable attack please see this article for future sparring.
killjoy7 wrote:
Wait till we all have electric cars with only 1 forward gear and 100% available torque at 0 rpm a la Tesla Roadster.
Will those be fun?
No.
Makes all the wrong noises.
I love torque but the noise needs to be there too.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXRudqJoFy0
Shawn
Shaun
Reader
1/26/10 10:56 p.m.
Trans_Maro wrote:
killjoy7 wrote:
Wait till we all have electric cars with only 1 forward gear and 100% available torque at 0 rpm a la Tesla Roadster.
Will those be fun?
No.
Makes all the wrong noises.
I love torque but the noise needs to be there too.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXRudqJoFy0
Shawn
I have been preparing myself for the inevitable. Initially I did not want to even imagine letting go of the roar and stink of piston driven engines. So I came up with a program with the help of my therapist: I drink scotch, close my eyes and meditate on the idea of driving a really fast open wheeled open cockpit car with perfectly linear 100hp motors at each wheel that all make this gnarly whirr while the tires rip at the pavement spitting dislodged zinging gravel at anything nearby, and over that you can hear blue jays scream while they flee in mortal fear when you suddenly appear. It has helped.
I won't be having fun until I can just sit in my Lexus sports car and play with my irazzberryphone pod while the Lexus unparks itself, drives off because I just told it to, brakes by itself, keeps in the lane by itself and automatically follows the gps. Wow, what fun. Can't wait !
ignorant wrote:
Buzz Killington wrote:
ReverendDexter wrote:
Automatics are awesome for high-torque, low-rpm engines.
like VW TDIs, diesel F350s and Freightliners.
that is some wacky logic, yo.
i guess you're right. i was under the impression all of those vehicles had high-torque, low-rpm engines. 
alfadriver wrote:
93celicaGT2 wrote:
But that said, MY definition of one is a small 2 seater that's fun to drive.
What makes it fun to drive?
(on a side, if changing your own gears is so fun, why isn't chaning the spark timing fun, too? or mixture? Or hand pumping a fuel pump? Or hand pumping the oil?)
E-
or steering for that matter! if you like steering so much, why not shifting gears?
that's why i find Amtrak to be a lot more fun than any car. the vehicle does it all for me...all i need to do is not spill my coffee on my laptop.
The lack of a clutch pedal in a Ferrari unitentionally legitimizes the use of "manually shifted" but completely conventional automatic transmissions in "enthusiast" cars.
But then I'm old school... to me the attraction of a "sports car" isn't the pure speed, it's the overall driving experience. To that end, I much prefer my old 308 to just about any newer (and unarguably superior) newer Ferrari... never mind that the aforementioned "enthusiast" in an automatic Kia will blow me away from a stoplight. ;-)
wcelliot wrote:
The lack of a clutch pedal in a Ferrari unitentionally legitimizes the use of "manually shifted" but completely conventional automatic transmissions in "enthusiast" cars.
But then I'm old school... to me the attraction of a "sports car" isn't the pure speed, it's the overall driving experience. To that end, I much prefer my old 308 to just about any newer (and unarguably superior) newer Ferrari... never mind that the aforementioned "enthusiast" in an automatic Kia will blow me away from a stoplight. ;-)
Ah hah!!! Kia = better sports car than Ferrari 308!
I see what you did there. 
and you definitely can't rock the Magnum 'stache while in a Kia. then you just look like a pedophile.
I drink scotch, close my eyes and meditate on the idea of driving a really fast open wheeled open cockpit car with perfectly linear 100hp motors at each wheel that all make this gnarly whirr while the tires rip at the pavement spitting dislodged zinging gravel at anything nearby, and over that you can hear blue jays scream while they flee in mortal fear when you suddenly appear. It has helped.
I've had similar dreams, but the birds always end up crapping on my helmet.
Unfortunately I can only afford to close my eyes and dream about drinking scotch.
wcelliot wrote:
The lack of a clutch pedal in a Ferrari unitentionally legitimizes the use of "manually shifted" but completely conventional automatic transmissions in "enthusiast" cars.
But then I'm old school... to me the attraction of a "sports car" isn't the pure speed, it's the overall driving experience. To that end, I much prefer my old 308 to just about any newer (and unarguably superior) newer Ferrari... never mind that the aforementioned "enthusiast" in an automatic Kia will blow me away from a stoplight. ;-)
Bringing this one back from the recently dead, because I'm bored and can't sleep...
Gotta agree with wcelliot on this. While I haven't read thru the previous 5 pages of posts on this for a few days, from what I remember there are decent arguments on both sides.
Granted, the new Ferrari gearboixes are incredible devices, with shift-times that I will never be able to match. If I were racing the car, I would definitely WANT that... But I'm not racing one... And likely most of the people who take delivery of a new Ferrari aren't either.
To me, it's no different than being bored and thinking "Well, I could go to the neighbor's and play "Rock Band" on his TV, or I could simply grab my Stratocaster.
Gotta go with the Strat every time...
Interaction and practice, FTW!!!
