Find the Lie: Porsche Panamera

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=157047

ATLANTA, Georgia — Porsche has released what it says are official EPA numbers on its 2010 Panamera, which goes on sale October 17. The EPA has yet to post the official numbers on its Web site, however. Porsche says official EPA numbers on the base 400-horsepower Panamera S and Panamera 4S are 16 miles per gallon in city driving and 24 mpg on the highway. It says the 500-hp Panamera Turbo model will deliver 15 mpg in city driving and 23 mpg on the highway. "All models are not subject to the gas guzzler tax," noted Porsche Cars North America spokesman Gary Fong in an e-mailed message to Inside Line on Wednesday. The Panamera models feature an automatically shifting double-clutch transmission that conserves fuel and cuts emissions by turning the engine off when it is not needed, such as when it's sitting at a stoplight. The numbers for the Panamera look impressive against the EPA numbers for one of its main competitors, the 2009 Maserati Quattroporte, another high-end four-door vehicle. The EPA says the Quattroporte returns 12 mpg in city driving and 18 mpg on the highway. Another key Panamera competitor will be the 2010 Aston Martin Rapide, which will debut in production form at the 2009 Frankfurt Auto Show. Neither Aston Martin nor the EPA listed fuel economy numbers for the Rapide as of Thursday morning. The Panamera is somewhat in the middle of the Porsche pack in fuel economy. The base 2010 Porsche Cayman returns 20 mpg in city driving and 29 mpg on the highway, according to the EPA. The 2010 Porsche 911GT3 RS returns 14 mpg in city driving and 21 mpg on the highway, according to the EPA. The Panamera will range in price from $89,800 to $132,600, according to Porsche. The AAA Daily Fuel Gauge report on Thursday morning said the current average price for a gallon of unleaded gas is $2.57, while the current average price for a gallon of premium unleaded gas is $2.83. Inside Line says: The fuel economy numbers on the high-performance Panamera look pretty good, but does anyone shelling out that kind of money for a car worry about the price of gas? — Anita Lienert, Correspondent

Did you find the lie?

The Panamera models feature an automatically shifting double-clutch transmission that conserves fuel and cuts emissions by turning the engine off when it is not needed, such as when it's sitting at a stoplight.

The Panamera models feature an automatically shifting double-clutch transmission that conserves fuel and cuts emissions by turning the engine off when it is not needed, such as when it's sitting at a stoplight.

Pretty sure it has that, they were talking about the auto shutoff at the launch event I was at.

Really? I was under the impression that feature was found to be unreliable. Guess they worked out the bugs then? I would be happy to be wrong, that could save ALL of the auto manufacturers a LOT of emissions grief moving forward.

Auto on/off is all over Europe already. The main issues with bringing it to the US are consumer acceptance and education, not the viability of the technology.

Put another way, us 'murcans don't like it when somethin' feels different. And then we fully report our displeasure to JD Power. And then it becomes my problem.

Does anyone know if the auto-shutoff/startup features have any problems with excessive engine wear?

I'm guessing with direct injection any concerns over excessive amounts of fuel needed to start the engine are pretty much mute.

fiat22turbo wrote: I'm guessing with direct injection any concerns over excessive amounts of fuel needed to start the engine are pretty much mute.

LOL!!! Only if you listen to the hype.

Oh, and idle emissions are pretty much nothing, so that's not the reason- it's a fuel economy trick.

Eric

So how do you "drag race" away from a stop light then?

Eric, that was what I was thinking.

Ok I will chime in here. I was told at the launch that it would only work if you turned the function on every time you started the car. Unlike in Europe were it is always on. The fuel economy ratings are with the system turned off because it is not activated all the time on start-up.

I think it should work very well kind of like the insight which had a similar function but used the flywheel as a weight and they went forever.

Even if we are getting this auto on/off system isn't still a lie in that the article says the transmission turns the engine on and off....wouldn't that still be the electrical system/starter that turns the engine on and off?

If I set the idle on my mini to factory specs it will turn itself off at every red light. I thought it was a pain in the ass so I raised the idle speed. Big lumpy cam and low idle speed did not play well. I guess I should've kept it this way and called it a feature!

For this to work Americans would actually have to come to a stop at signs and signals.

Carson wrote: For this to work Americans would actually have to come to a stop at signs and signals.

LOLZ

I remember seeing a secondary traffic light in Geneva. It would give you a 5-second warning (or so) before your light turned green so you could restart the engine. Seemed perfectly logical. Well, it WAS in Switzerland.

TJ wrote: Even if we are getting this auto on/off system isn't still a lie in that the article says the transmission turns the engine on and off....wouldn't that still be the electrical system/starter that turns the engine on and off?

I think it is integrated into the transmission in some new way kind of like the insights was. They did not get into to much detail.

wearymicrobe wrote: The fuel economy ratings are with the system turned off because it is not activated all the time on start-up.

Correct. The EPA test cars in the state they default to when turned on. Hence why most "Sport" modes must be manually activated each time you start the car.

My suspicion is that this is at least partially the reason behind the M5's requirement to push the 500 hp button every single time you start the car, but I don't know that for sure.

speedblind wrote:

wearymicrobe wrote: The fuel economy ratings are with the system turned off because it is not activated all the time on start-up.

Correct. The EPA test cars in the state they default to when turned on. Hence why most "Sport" modes must be manually activated each time you start the car. My suspicion is that this is at least partially the reason behind the M5's requirement to push the 500 hp button every single time you start the car, but I don't know that for sure.

I wish my car had a 500 hp button

thatsnowinnebago wrote: I wish my car had a 500 hp button

I wish I would've typed that before you, Mindreader

On second thought if all it takes is a button to get 500 HP what am I waiting for...I'm getting a button!

Keith wrote: I remember seeing a secondary traffic light in Geneva. It would give you a 5-second warning (or so) before your light turned green so you could restart the engine. Seemed perfectly logical. Well, it WAS in Switzerland.

I know Israel and one other country I've been to (forget which though, maybe Mexico?) have the yellow come on with the red when there's a few second left, to let you know the light's about to go green and get your horn ready!

This only works if NO ONE runs red lights though...

Keith wrote: I remember seeing a secondary traffic light in Geneva. It would give you a 5-second warning (or so) before your light turned green so you could restart the engine. Seemed perfectly logical. Well, it WAS in Switzerland.

Grewat in theory lousy in practice. Every where in Europe you go Red - Amber - Green, rather than the Red - Green here. I actualy much prefer the American system. What the Red - Amber - Green system does is encourage people to leave BEFORE the light goes green and makes it more dangerouse.

TJ wrote: On second thought if all it takes is a button to get 500 HP what am I waiting for...I'm getting a button!

it does, i have one, it's pretty sweet. but it came with a bottle that costs $40 or so to fill after i use the button too much.

davidjs wrote: I know Israel and one other country I've been to (forget which though, maybe Mexico?) have the yellow come on with the red when there's a few second left, to let you know the light's about to go green and get your horn ready! This only works if NO ONE runs red lights though...

They do that here (Germany) and in the U.K. too. In the U.K. it means "put your car in gear, the light's about to change." Here it means "your car's already in gear. Start driving."

How about staging lights and christmas trees at red lights? I think that would be awesome.

Yes please. My clutch would hate me though