Finding autocross sites - advice and tips needed

Hey, all:

Our local club is desperately hemmed in on a single tiny site for our autocross events. I'm spearheading the effort to find a new venue.

I welcome any and all advice on how to locate good prospective sites and approach the owners with our request. I understand that first and foremost, it is necessary to demonstrate professionalism, safety, and (most important) insurability. But, really, any strategic or tactical information will be appreciated.

Anybody know of possible sites in the general Delaware area, including SE Pennsylvania and NE Maryland?

There has to be a better way than using Google Maps as a recon satellite to manually look for large flat empty paved areas. Thanks!

My branch of the SCCA runs at a police/firefighter training facility.

GoogleMap search "1317 S. Powell Rd, Independence MO" for a visual.

Makes for plenty of course options. Part of the surface is grooved, part is smooth tarmac. There's a BIG skidpad too, but we don't use that.

Best of luck.

Nope apart from asking if any locals have any suggestions, satellite maps are your best bet. You can search Google Maps (or the phone book) for stadiums, convention centers, maybe construction companies (tend to have large concrete yards that are idle on weekends and won't get freaked out at a few little cars zipping around, my local club was considering one) etc to help find places to look at.

The best site my local club has access to is a drag racing facility. We use the staging and pit lanes and end up with nice, big, fast courses, plus there are electrical outlets, water and restrooms on site. We are at the mercy of the host site's drag racing schedule, but given their "day job", they don't bat an eye at the fact that we're racing at their facility.

I do a lot of that for our club. It's tough. In terms of site selection, make sure you do you homework on the area before bugging the land owner. Make sure the site will work. Make sure that residential neighborhood are not within audible distance of the site. My usual way of doing it is to select a site. Find out everything I can about who owns the site. If it's a business, do your best to network and find someone who knows someone that works for that business. Getting an internal advocate is huge. Meet in person with the decision maker whenever possible, at the very least, use the phone. Email and mail will be tossed aside quickly. Even when turned down, be polite and appreciative of their time. In my experience they may decide their site won't work, but they have a friend that has something. The nicer you are, the more likely they are to help you out. Contact local police, and get them on your side, and see if they have a facility they use. Contact your local government rep and see if you can get an in with your regions secretary of transportation. All these contacts will help you get what you want, providing it is available.

Do your first event for a local charity of their choice. It helps open the door... "I am hoping to put on a charity driving event", sound more appealing then a "race".

Anther approach is to put on one of those Teen driving safety course things. Both those approaches will help get your foot in the door and show them how professional/ safe etc.. you are.

Keep in mind most people have no idea what an autocross / Solo 2 is. Racing brings to mind NASCAR or NHRA for most people.

+1 on the charity suggestion, except I'd go one step further and make a regular donation of a few dollars out of each entry fee for every event. Say you've got 100 people, 10 events a year, and $5 from each entry goes to a local charity -- that's $5000 a year. That gives the people who own the site a reason to want to let you play there, a reason to take a risk and say "yes", instead of the "no" answer that's much safer for them.

I agree on the charity event idea! SCCA used to run ProSolo events at the State Farm Show complex in Harrisburg, PA and at the GM plant in Wilmington, DE where they used to build Corsicas. I know the GM plant closed but I have no idea if those lots are available or if they even still exist. Hershey Park has a nice lot that has been used by PCA.
Dan

Thanks for the great tips, everybody!

The GM Boxwood plant is still around, and still empty after Fisker bilked Delaware out of tax dollars and then opted to go elsewhere. When GM was operating it, management was not cool with the idea of non-GM cars running there so it was off limits. Now that GM is not operating it, I will try to see who to contact, but it is going to be made difficult by the fact that the gates are now locked all the time.

Again, thanks for all the tips. I like the charity idea.

icondriver wrote: I agree on the charity event idea! SCCA used to run ProSolo events at the State Farm Show complex in Harrisburg, PA and at the GM plant in Wilmington, DE where they used to build Corsicas. I know the GM plant closed but I have no idea if those lots are available or if they even still exist. Hershey Park has a nice lot that has been used by PCA. Dan

We still run at both the Farm Show and Hershey.

ive often looked at the empty mills in our area and their parking lots. you may look for shut down plants/mills/malls etc and contact the landowner.

Duke wrote: Now that GM is not operating it, I will try to see who to contact, but it is going to be made difficult by the fact that the gates are now locked all the time.

A particular cutscene from NFSU2 comes to mind

I'm not sure which club you are in but why not try citizens bank park in philadelphia? Delaware isn't to far from Philly. Philadelphia Region, Sports Car Club of America uses that lot. check out the videos on youtube.

Google Earth is your friend. I've spend hours on there looking at parking lots. The measurement tool is pretty handy too. From there it comes down to begging.

You might also try school lots. We have a local school that lets us use their lot on Sundays because we do a Street Survival School on Saturday for the students.

Sports venues have large parking lots that sit unused just about every weekend there isn't a home game. My club runs on two minor league baseball stadium parking lots.

Also, during the high summer months, most schools have empty parking lots, as well.

Sky_Render wrote: Sports venues have large parking lots that sit unused just about every weekend there isn't a home game. My club runs on two minor league baseball stadium parking lots. Also, during the high summer months, most schools have empty parking lots, as well.

Does Deleware even have any large sports venues? well.......besides bird watching.

Forgive me if it's a silly suggestion, my geographical knoledge about your area is exactly zero.

That said, we use the unused runways at a military installation. It's a bit of a hassle with checking in and what not, but it's an amazing facility that we are very lucky to have.

Like you, we were running on a postage stamp before this.

snayson1 wrote: I'm not sure which club you are in but why not try citizens bank park in philadelphia? Delaware isn't to far from Philly. Philadelphia Region, Sports Car Club of America uses that lot. check out the videos on youtube.

I have a couple places like that which I know are amenable, but are way out of the lot rent budget for us. If you have 150 cars show up at $40-50 a pop, you can afford to pay $1500 in rent. Not so much when you have 30 or 40 cars show up at $20-25 a pop.

I am autocross chair next year, and I am not averse to raising the rates a little to cover more lot rent, but on the other hand, our attendance numbers are not huge and I don't want to scare anybody away. On the other other hand, if I can score a better venue, we would probably see another 10-20 cars.

colaboy wrote: Forgive me if it's a silly suggestion, my geographical knoledge about your area is exactly zero. That said, we use the unused runways at a military installation. It's a bit of a hassle with checking in and what not, but it's an amazing facility that we are very lucky to have. Like you, we were running on a postage stamp before this.

No suggestion is silly! Last year we had a line on a similar situation... it has not moved forward, but I don't think it's dead. If I have the ball I may be able to reopen that discussion. Thanks.

What is your average attendance now? Your current fee structure?

30 or 40 cars show up at $20 (members) and $25 (nonmembers) a pop. That hasn't changed in 5 years. I could make a case for increasing the fees $5 each, IF I could provide a better venue to justify it. As it is now we have been losing attendance as fast as we have been attracting it, because our only venue is so small it really only allows 1 basic course setup.

We do have a little money in the kitty. I could possibly talk the other officers into using some of that to subsidize higher lot rent for a season. We would lose money for a few events in order to get a more attractive venue, then increase the fees once attendance improved.

That is pretty cheap. For our last couple of venues we offered revenue sharing for the site fee. Guaranteed minimum to site owner, then a per entrant fee. It has been received well, and protects the club if you have a fluke low turnout. We are at $40 for members right now, which sadly is the cheapest around.

In reply to red5_02 :

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