Freezing-Temp HPDE - Tires?!

For my last event of the year, I had to make a choice.

NJMP last weekend, or Summit Point this weekend. Since I've been on NJMP tons all year I chose Summit.

Looks like I chose wrong... last weekend was almost 60*, while temps tomorrow at Summit will barely eclipse FREEZING.

You read that correctly - I will be doing a trackday in temps when my street car is already on winter tires.

Any advice? I have a set of Yoko AD008s and Maxxis RC-1s for the car. Lower pressures? Drive with extra slip angle to get heat into them? Wear extra layers? Swap my winter tires over? LOL

I definitely would not run the RC1's, I would check the manufacturer information on cold temps and the AD008s

In my experience trying to run a race tire in really cold temps is both slow and really hard on tires.  I've done it twice and both times the tires chunked without ever generating grip.  I'd run the Yokos, embrace the lower grip and have fun.  Bring extra clothes and your hot (non-alcoholic) beverage of choice. 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but a set of all-seasons would be ideal for this track day.

GameboyRMH said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but a set of all-seasons would be ideal for this track day.

Yeah, I don't buy that. I'm interested to see what everyboyd is going to use, but I know for a fact that my friend's 360 Challenge will be on Hoosiers.

BFG Sport Comp-2 will get it done.

WildScotsRacingCampbellCougarSeed said:

BFG Sport Comp-2 will get it done.

Damnit, I have a set of these sitting on my buddies car who went out of the country (used to be on my now-track car while it was still being daily driven). If I had known the cold snap was coming, this indeed would probably have been the best option.

Well played.

Blaise said:

GameboyRMH said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but a set of all-seasons would be ideal for this track day.

Yeah, I don't buy that. I'm interested to see what everyboyd is going to use, but I know for a fact that my friend's 360 Challenge will be on Hoosiers.

I was torn between all-seasons and summer performance tires, I'd bet the two would perform similarly but the summer tires would come out significantly worse for wear. I hope your buddy's rich, his Hoosiers are going to get destroyed.

You have to remember that these tires not only need to start from cold conditions, but they'll be getting constantly cooled by a freezing track and freezing air.

Gameboy: see lots of near freezing track time there in Barbados?

I instructed at this same NASA Summit event last year.  It wasn’t quite as cold but was below freezing at night.  I was on 200tw Dunlop Direzza ZII star specs.  They were fine, you just had to take it easier fornthe first few laps until you got some heat in them, and then don’t expect your lap time to be as good as an event in June.  I would keep your pressures a little lower to get more flex and heat in them. 

As for th Ferrari, I’ve seen that spin on the warmup laps more than once. Hoosiers are not the best choice for lower level HPDE.  

Who said he was a lower level HPDE guy? He's running TT.

And yes, somebody who owns a 360 challenge car is not poor. Like me. lol.

Same debate here for an autox tomorrow.  40F.  Low run Hoosiers A6 or Old Rivals.  I don't want to damage the Hoosiers if it's to cold as they will be great next season.  I have older Hoosiers but unfortunately 2 corded last event.

What to do.  Either way will be slow and I'm just out for fun so it doesn't really matter.

Oh, 360 Challenge as in Ferrari 360...I was wondering what kind of class that was.

Sonic said:

Gameboy: see lots of near freezing track time there in Barbados?

No, but I do have experience maintaining cars for winter use and driving in cold conditions, and good knowledge of the temperatures at which different types of tires shouldn't even be stored, much less driven on, so I don't think my advice was ridiculous. I welcome correction via technical arguments, location-based mockery, not so much.

Gameboy, settle down, good natured sarcasm doesn’t translate well apparently in writing.  Here:

Blaise, Darcy or someone co drives that car in HPDE1 or 2 usually.  That’s where I’ve seen it spin in warmup laps.  She would probably learn a lot more in a Miata. It is hard to give point bys through the little sliding windows. 

Darcy does drive in DE2, but her husband runs TT. I'm in DE3 (wahoo).

You've got the right car, just has 2 drivers. I agree about the miata comment, but she's a good person and points everyone by just fine. Funny how small this world is. Well, the 360 challenge-car-owning world.

Totally, she is very polite on track. It amused me getting point bys from such a seriously fast car when I’m in a students civic. 

I have nothing to add to the tire discussion, just that my first ever HPDE was on a 20 degree day with flurries. I was on Toyo Proxes T1 and spent a lot of the day sideways. It was fun.

Not that this will help OP,  but would this be a good situation for a mild 300-400TW summer performance tire like the Conti DW?

Blaise said:

For my last event of the year, I had to make a choice.

NJMP last weekend, or Summit Point this weekend. Since I've been on NJMP tons all year I chose Summit.

Looks like I chose wrong... last weekend was almost 60*, while temps tomorrow at Summit will barely eclipse FREEZING.

 

 

We are not much above freezing here in NJ either this weekend.

Don't know if Legal, But one idea is the use a butane burner and heat the tires with the car lifted before you run.

I always figured the answer was shaved winter tires.

WildScotsRacingCampbellCougarSeed said:

BFG Sport Comp-2 will get it done.

Temps got below freezing here, and I still had mine on the car.  Of course it's too windy/rainy/cold to bother breaking out the tools to change to winter tires in the dark, so I figured on just white-knuckling it to work until the weekend.

Was shocked that the tires actually work even when its 30F.  Pleasantly shocked.

Mind you, this is morning-commute grand prix and not HPDE, so YMMV.  But definitely a far better cold experience than any other UHP tire I've had or driven on.

Well, I woke up this morning in 18*F weather to find that everybody was running their Hoosiers or whatever R comps they brought. 

I ran my RC-1s and did more than just fine, it was great!!!! Was moved into DE3 and I’m turning 3+ seconds faster than I did here back in June, and only 2-3 seconds off SM pace while overweight/underpowered/etc.

So yeah. Color me surprised. 

from personal experience for the same event at the same track for several years...I ran Nitto NT01 and they were exceptional. in freezing/near freezing temps...but definetly do not go flat out especially on the opening morning laps lol

I instructed at this event. My Gr 2 student ran a Fox Mustang on Hoosiers the entire weekend. The track temperature seemed to matter far more than the ambient temp when it came to the tires. Sat AM was a little slippery but a pressure adjustment made a big difference. Once the track got warm in the sunshine things were pretty normal.

As for myself I ran my street car on BFG summer 'performance' tires and they were predictably 'meh'.

Meh, one of my last track days in the Miata...........I left the house to drive to the track, it was 27F outside...............with no top, on R888s.

I think the first session of the day was 36-37, it took an extra lap to get the tires up to temp.