Glowing Porsche comments from the new issue

Jay wrote:

carguy123 wrote: Jay, controls in the wrong place were considered to be the root cause of the Audi unintended acceleration. The pedals were offset and when people quickly put their foot down to hit the brake they hit the gas instead. Since they thought their foot was on the brake they just kept pressing harder and harder.

Actually, 'Consumer Reports' making E36 M3 up for the headlines was considered to be the root cause of the Audi "unintended accelleration". Honestly, if you can't handle the pedals being 2" to the left, or the headlight switch being on the wrong side of the steering wheel, or whatever, you'd better just buy one car and stick with it forever. Don't go all critical of automakers for not making every car exactly the same. Then again, my daily driver has me shifting gears with my left hand so what do I know?

I thought new agers trying to drive in Doc Martens was the problem.

< Honestly, if you can't handle the pedals being 2" to the left, or the headlight switch being on the wrong side of the steering wheel, or whatever, you'd better just buy one car and stick with it forever. Don't go all critical of automakers for not making every car exactly the same.

Have you ever driven a car with the pedals offset? I laughed at the rationale on the offset pedals too and then I built another Cobra and it had offset pedals.

As long as I drove that car I never totally got used to that. I can't tell you how many times I hit the gas when I meant to hit the brakes. And if I didn't hit the gas and miss the brakes I hit both so the engine would redline out of gear. I can now understand hitting the wrong pedal.

I have to admit, I despise offset pedals.

If I read "quality German engineering", or "Teutonic build quality", in a magazine one more time I'm going to puke. I've had VWs, and driven and worked on friends BMWs, Mercedes, and Porsches. And the cars are no better, and in most cases worse in the quality of parts and assembly, compared to their Japanese, and American counterparts. Superior quality? Sure, compared to the French and Italian cars! I find the British offerings more mechanically reliable if you discount the electrical systems.

And I agree, if a car costs twice as much, it should posses twice the quality.

That said, I still love the 911! The rear engine provides amazing steering response, and traction driving from the apex. I love the smells, and the sound of the boxer six behind my back. I just wish it was built by Subaru. Self combustion wasn't limited to the early fuel injected models, the twin three-bore webber carbs were known to spit fuel into the air cleaners, and burn themselves down. I don't see why anyone would have an air conditioner in a 911, it adds weight and complexity to a race car. And as a previous poster pointed out, they are ALL race cars. Anyone who buys one for a luxury car is demented.

As the author of the piece and editor of the magazine, I guess I should chime in. First, read the text at the bottom of page 47: "These cars are more about the driving experience; they charm the heart instead of the mind."

These are not brand-new econoboxes designed by committees and robots. They are not the cure to the world's problems. They won't carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

What is the 911? It's an early 1960s car that was constantly refined over the next few decades. It's an automotive icon that's now within reasonable means. Think of it as your chance to date a supermodel. Sure, there's some baggage, but there's a good chance that you'll enjoy a memorable experience.

David S. Wallens wrote: They won't carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

Do you know that for certain? There is 8' between the wing and the windscreen... I bet you could tie one on there

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote: They won't carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

Do you know that for certain? There is 8' between the wing and the windscreen... I bet you could tie one on there

You know, I didn't think about that. Okay, I revise what I said. Maybe it can carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Having a Turbo tail or Carrera tail would probably help.

Maroon92 wrote: I have never understood the love for Porsche road cars. Now a 917-30, a 962, or even a 993 GT2 RSR would be SICK to have as a vintage racer. If it has a Zuffenhausen crest and has even hinted at going racing, I LOVE IT!

Yeah, but don't you have to work on the damn things for a living?

When they are cheap and bothersome they are a POS

When they are expensive and bothersome they are eccentric.

Cotton wrote: You guys worry about what other people think too much. I have Porsches, American muscle cars, a diesel dually, ac VWs, sportbikes, 4x4 trucks, Jeeps, etc. I fill just about every stereotype and I just don't care anymore. The same guy that would say "take daddies Porsche home" would drool over my Chevelle and a lot of people that would drool over the Porsches would call the muscle cars "redneck". berkeley them all. Honestly most people are idiots and a lot of "car guys" are single minded morons. It gets old dealing with their reactions to whatever stereotype they think they see, but I'm not going to sacrifice my enjoyment and appreciation of different cars/bikes/etc becasue of them. Okay I feel better now.

Right On! I can understand the non-enthusiast spouting stuff like that, but it really gets me angry when we gearheads do that to each other. Was it one of the Founding Fathers that said, "..if we do not hang together, rest assured we shall all hang separately!"?

And I like older 911s, but certainly understand why others do not (I've driven a bunch of em, but never lived with one). Thought the article was great.

nderwater wrote:

JoeyM wrote: Anyway, back to my experience with it....I drove it, but was very slow. Frankly I was intimidated by the $$$ and the knowledge that I could never afford to fix it if something went wrong, and as a result, I was even slower than my normally slow self. Immediately afterwards, I drove my Geo and had a faster lap time.

facepalm.

Hey, if you can't afford to crumple it up in a little ball and walk away, you probably should not be driving it in anger. We all know that's true for a Time Attack or a wheel-to-wheel race. I think - and others probably disagree - that we should keep the cost of repairs in mind when autocrossing, too.

I know people who have - WHILE AUTOCROSSING - done the following:
a) flipped a car
b) visited a tirewall with enough force to destroy the front bumper and grill on their car
c) destroyed an engine on a car they tuned when the rev limiter didn't kick in soon enough
d) broken suspension components

(I could go on. You get the point.)

Amusing conversation:
Ian Stewart: "I don't think I've ever been in a Geo before."
Me: "There's a first for everything."
Ian: "Why a Geo"
Me: "My car cost less than your tires"
[discussion about the price of the car]
Ian: "Your car cost less than one of my tires"

FlightService wrote: When they are cheap and bothersome they are a POS When they are expensive and bothersome they are eccentric.

I think that when cars are old and bothersome, yet still are fantastic to drive, they are worth owning and preserving. If driving an older Porsche doesn't make you smile or feel alive, pass it on to someone else.

JoeyM wrote: Hey, if you can't afford to crumple it up in a little ball and walk away, you probably should not be driving it in anger. We all know that's true for a Time Attack or a wheel-to-wheel race. I think - and others probably disagree - that we should keep the cost of repairs in mind when autocrossing, too.

My mind hears you, but my soul doesn't care. There are times in life when the time comes to take a chance, knowing that your insurance is paid up.

In the past year or so I've been lucky enough to drive - in anger - a Ferrari 360, Lamborghini Gallardo, Audi R8, Porsche 997 Turbo, Aston Martin Vantage, Lotus Elise, BMW M5, M6, and various M3's. I would spring for the chance to do so again in a heart beat, and would not let worry make me take it slow.

nderwater wrote:

JoeyM wrote: Hey, if you can't afford to crumple it up in a little ball and walk away, you probably should not be driving it in anger. We all know that's true for a Time Attack or a wheel-to-wheel race. I think - and others probably disagree - that we should keep the cost of repairs in mind when autocrossing, too.

My mind hears you, but my soul doesn't care. There are times in life when the time comes to take a chance, knowing that your insurance is paid up. In the past year or so I've been lucky enough to drive - in anger - a Ferrari 360, Lamborghini Gallardo, Audi R8, Porsche 997 Turbo, Aston Martin Vantage, Lotus Elise, BMW M5, M6, and various M3's. I would spring for the chance to do so again in a heart beat, and would not let worry make me take it slow.

I hate you.

It was a happy coincidence - there used to be a place in Charlotte which rented its fleet of supercars for country drives and track days, and I was gifted a weekend at BMW's M School in Spartanburg.

Photos and video: http://tractioninc.tumblr.com/tagged/Me/page/2

I would love to own and drive a vintage 911, but I don't think I could bring myself to become a Porsche owner. It's the same reason I'll never drive an Acura, Audi, a new BMW, or a newer VW. The group of people I'd be inserting myself into is just not for me.

I'm pretty sure you can drive any one of those cars, and still be yourself.

Or maybe it's time to quote this again

Cotton wrote: You guys worry about what other people think too much.

Zomby woof wrote: I'm pretty sure you can drive any one of those cars, and still be yourself.

QFT, and I think I was the first guy in this thread to go "I think they're neat, but gee, I'm not sure I want to be seen driving around in a Porsche..."

It sounded wrong when I said it, and the people who corrected me were correct. I feel a weight has been lifted, horizons broadened... (okay, shutting up now...)

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Tom Heath wrote: Ownership? That's not for me, thanks. (except the 914 with a Subaru motor that I've placed in the "someday" file.)

My "someday 914" is cream-sickle orange and black with pop-riveted fender flares trimmed out for Vintage racing. It will probably always be a "someday" though.

Most snooty people go out of their way to remind me that my 914 is NOT a real Porsche but an old VW. Come to think of it, what's wrong with old VWs?

Most dune buggies and all Formula Vees started out as old VWs.

Funny. I read the article, grabbed my wife to show it to her, and wanted a 911 EVEN MORE. I'm >this< close to selling everything in the garage (ok, an M5 drivetrain and a engineless E30) to get one...before prices start climbing like they did on the E30 M3's I like so much. :)

I enjoyed the 911 article, I thought it was a very balanced view. The article captured the feel of this forum, which is a huge compliment. I had the privilege of riding in a mid-80s 911 Targa when I was a teenager. I loved that car, and would love to drive one someday.

I agree with Cotton's comments. I drive a BMW, which sounds much more impressive than the reality - it's a 14 year old, $4500 car :-) And it's not even an M3! I also love all Mustangs, Muscle Cars, Trucks, Cobras, and can appreciate just about every vehicle on some level (even minivans). I've found that most true car enthusiasts will look behind a brand and a car's reputation and appreciate the car for what it is.

David S. Wallens wrote: As the author of the piece and editor of the magazine, I guess I should chime in. First, read the text at the bottom of page 47: "These cars are more about the driving experience; they charm the heart instead of the mind." What is the 911? It's an early 1960s car that was constantly refined over the next few decades. It's an automotive icon that's now within reasonable means. Think of it as your chance to date a supermodel. Sure, there's some baggage, but there's a good chance that you'll enjoy a memorable experience.

I appreciate the whole series of car buying guides. They tell me things I didn't know about each make & model. They don't necessarily make me want to rush out and buy one, but the do give me the knowledge to appreciate whatever make you guys are spotlighting.

I thought the great thing about this article was the comments. It really added a slant you rarely see. It's nice to see the truth printed instead of glossing over the cracks in the veneer. There are many cars on all our want lists that, as they become affordable, ownership becomes a possiblility. I appreciate knowing what I'd be getting into, that can keep me from ruining the mental image of my dream car by an unprepared ownership experience.

Soon, very soon, I want to know what to watch out for in an Elise.

friedgreencorrado wrote:

Maroon92 wrote: I have never understood the love for Porsche road cars. Now a 917-30, a 962, or even a 993 GT2 RSR would be SICK to have as a vintage racer. If it has a Zuffenhausen crest and has even hinted at going racing, I LOVE IT!

Yeah, but don't you have to work on the damn things for a living?

Yeah, but I kinda felt the same way before. I could not, and still can't figure out why someone would pay 80K for a Cayman when a 370Z can outperform it at 40K. Twice as much for less performance? WHY?

BTW, Motorcycles were meant to be aircooled, Cars were intended to be watercooled!

In reply to Maroon92:

Because the 370Z is ugly?