Spent last night watching the Goodwood Revival thanks to DVR. Watched a whole bunch of early '60's sports racers.
Could you visually clone a 23b...or similar early 60's sports racer? Could it be done on a GRM budget? A Miata is way too big.
Think LoCost with a body.
EDIT- I think maybe Per is on the right track with the LeGrand
Of course you can. How are you at shaping aluminum or fibreglass?
Keith wrote: How are you at shaping aluminum or fibreglass?
Don't know what he has in mind. I'm hoping that my english wheel from HF is capable of shaping the 1930s fenders for my datsun....
LocostUSA has a thread or two on the topic. There are bodies out there for not too much $$$.
Lotus 23b is my dream classic race car. Kreb, are the bodies meant to fit on a "normal" Lotus 7 type kit?
Champion motorcars, the guys that used to sell Locost kits, used to have a Lotus 11 body that would bolt up to a mildly modified Locost chassis... Looked good, but i don't know that they ever sold any before they went out of business.
These guys sell both turnkey and roller kits which are supposed to be among the more accurate replicas:
http://www.xanthos.com/
They seem to offer a lot of drivetrain choices, from Lotus twincam to bike engine to 4AG or Honda. Before anybody gets agitated about the pricing of the Xanthos, I would think you could do it on a smaller budget if you can fabricate a lot yourself...just like you can go buy a Caterham if you need turnkey and have the $$, or you can build a Locost if you have the tools and the time.
There are predecessors to the DSR cars like mine and Per's that ran in the old SCCA H Mod class. Quite a few have the same basic look as this Lotus. There are "projects" out there that will get you the basics to restore without having to build everything from scratch. Check out the sports racer forum:
http://dsrforum.yuku.com/ Look under the H Mod threads and you'll find some info.
Also look at the sports racer network for pictures and info: http://sports.racer.net/
Gonzo_Bmod wrote: There are predecessors to the DSR cars like mine and Per's that ran in the old SCCA H Mod class.
...and I was just looking through an old issue of Classic Motorsports that had a nice article on H Mod....it was the vintage racing issue. (sorry, don't have it here, so I can't tell you which month...I expect that it was within the last two years, though.)
Jamesc2123 wrote: Lotus 23b is my dream classic race car. Kreb, are the bodies meant to fit on a "normal" Lotus 7 type kit?
7= front engined, 23 = mid engined. A little on 23s from Wikipedia:
The debut of the 23 was at the Nordschleife in May, 1962. The tiny 100 bhp (70 kW) Lotus 23 shot away from the field of Porsches, Aston Martins and Ferraris with Jim Clark at the wheel. Even though some cars had four times the power of the Lotus, after the first lap, in the wet, Clark was 27 seconds ahead of Dan Gurney's Porsche. Extending his lead on each lap until the track dried, Clark was overcome by exhaust fumes from a damaged exhaust manifold on lap 12 and was forced to retire. [edit] Banned from Le Mans In June 1962, two 23s were entered at Le Mans, a 750 cc and a one liter (45ci & 61ci). Due to political pressure brought to bear by French teams[citation needed], the 23s were disallowed on technical grounds.[2][3] A furious Chapman vowed, "We will never race again at Le Mans!" - and Team Lotus has not entered the race since. In spite of these early problems, the Lotus 23 proved a competitive, durable, and popular race car. Over 130 were produced in three versions: the standard 23, 23B, 23C. Today these cars are a mainstay of vintage racing in Europe and the United States.
I love the 23s as well, and would love to build one powered by something like a Hyabusa. (sigh) maybie someday...
kreb wrote: I love the 23s as well, and would love to build one powered by something like a Hyabusa. (sigh) maybie someday...
A cheaper donor motor would be something from a ZX12, R1, or CBR900. Those motors won't cost the same premium as a Hayabusa motor as they aren't the star motor of motorcycling right now.
Other touring based bikes might work just as well as the ones I mentioned. Something like an FJ1300 motor (I'm not sure if that's the name but it's Yam's sport tourer), Any Goldwing motor, ZXR1200, etc.
IIRC many of the Goldwings transmissions have reverse now too...
John Brown wrote: IIRC many of the Goldwings transmissions have reverse now too...
Electric motor for reverse
Have you guys seen that Speilberg college film class short with the Lotus 23? It's a good one. Full built TC motor with DCOE's pig rich and missing under about 3K, then takes off.
One of the big keys to making a bike motor work in a car is the oil control system. The G forces in a car vs. a bike are all different, so keeping the oil pickup covered usually requires custom baffling and higher oil levels if you stick with a wet sump. It's best to use engines that have proven oil systems in car applications like the R1, the GSXR1000, the ZX10, or the big blocks (XX Blackbird and Hayabusa).
You can mount the motor transverse and use the typical bike style chain drive or there are pieces you can fit to the bike tranny's output shaft that allows you to hook up a drive shaft and run the engine longitudally using a standard ring and pinion set up. If you really need reverse, I've seen systems that add an extra ring gear to the chain driven rear and use a small starter motor that engages for reverse only.
When I was a kid, my dad had a westfield 11 which I loved. It has a very similar shape to the 23, but is front engined.
Here is someone's miata based attempt at recreating an 11: http://www.trilliummiata.com/index.php/garage-talk/81-mx5-lotus-xi-crossbreed
There is one on race-cars for about 9K body/brakes/suspension. Just needs a motor and transmission.
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3415&sid=0c119c98a20eb1a341262525b21cf90e
Joe @ LocostUSA said: I talked to them [Curtis Unlimited] today, too. Wanted to find out more about the Lola mk1 and Lotus 19 bodies. Lola is about $2000, but they only have the head fairing for RHD. The 19 is about $3000... Dimensions for both are the same as the originals, as they are actual replacement panels. Each body weighs about 100 lbs... Seem like really nice people. BTW--they also have Elva mk7 bodies
I think the goldwing engine would be a great choice, the flat 4 or 6 would give a very low CG, and the sump is narrow and long, ideal for a car. Plus the exhaust hangs no lower than the bottom of the sump.
I've been thinking about the idea for a bit, as I have a gl1100 here that I started restoring.
xci_ed6 wrote: I think the goldwing engine would be a great choice, the flat 4 or 6 would give a very low CG, and the sump is narrow and long, ideal for a car. Plus the exhaust hangs no lower than the bottom of the sump. I've been thinking about the idea for a bit, as I have a gl1100 here that I started restoring.
I'll bet a supercharger would mount nicely on either flat side (top/bottom) of the motor as well. It would be mechanically simpler to go turbo on that I think.
Not cheap, but body panels are readily available:
I was thinking the exact same thing whilst looking over a 23 in the paddock at Sebring this past weekend.
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