Proposed Grassroots Motorsports $2014 Challenge Rules

OK, since its a dead topic, may I ask a question?

On the paddock can I run a salamander heater blowing into a 4 way collector distributing hot air to the wheels/tires via dryer hose & tire blankets to preheat the afformentioned worn r6's? Or will I be kicked out for running a generator/open flame source in the paddock?

If allowed, there's my idea for hopefully offering a much cheaper/budget friendly solution that might help fellow competitors out as well.

I just have one question about the dead topic:

What was it that prompted the decision to make any tire exempt rather making at least a small attempt to keep it all in check by say, adopting Lemons tire rules? Because that's what I REALLY don't get.

I understand that some sort of free tire rule keeps everyone "honest," and it's easy to police, but what was it that just threw it into the deep end of "berkeley it, don't care, any tire you want?"

In reply to wheels777:

Honestly, I liked the oem brake rule, and I'm with you, but the vast majority of these cars that show up have cheap brakes. It is what it is I guess.

In reply to Swank Force One:

My opinion: treadwear rules leave you with the "Hot tires" that are the only ones worth a damn to run if you want to win. Then you end up having to shop wheels that fit those tires. Open tire rules allow you FSAE tires for the small wheel guys, Porsche Cup tires for the big wheel guys, circle track tires for the 15" crowd, etc.... Lots of options for lots of budgets.

David said first and foremost that it (rules enforcement) needed to be easy. They do have a magazine to run also.

If anyone is dumb enough to not spend 10 bucks on some new pads then hopefully tech catches them.

Hot tires are vehicle specific. I'd say there's less "hot tire" bs with street tires than leaving it open.

And there's less difference between street tires on less than ideally set up cars, anyways.

And this is me saying this as someone who has a whopping two street tire choices, and over ten race tire choices in their size.

The race tires are often cheaper, too.

Swank Force One wrote: What was it that prompted the decision to make any tire exempt rather making at least a small attempt to keep it all in check by say, adopting Lemons tire rules? Because that's what I REALLY don't get.

This all came out during the town hall meeting during the $2013 Challenge. First, I explained where the pre-2014 tire rule came from to put things into a historical context.

Then we started polling people regarding what they wanted. DOT or not? As some people noted, they can get slicks for less money for DOTs. Okay, here's the pros and cons of price cap--what do you guys like? We eventually got to the current rule.

Finally, did anyone have a better tire rule? No. Do you guys like this idea? Yes! Okay, next topic.

In reply to Swank Force One:

I'm in for the normal "well then people will shave/heat cycle the street tires" argument....promptly followed by "Oh will someone think of the children?".

Many apologies, I'm just trying to liven up the mood.

yamaha wrote: OK, since its a dead topic, may I ask a question? On the paddock can I run a salamander heater blowing into a 4 way collector distributing hot air to the wheels/tires via dryer hose & tire blankets to preheat the afformentioned worn r6's? Or will I be kicked out for running a generator/open flame source in the paddock? If allowed, there's my idea for hopefully offering a much cheaper/budget friendly solution that might help fellow competitors out as well.

RVs run generators all day long in the paddock.

In reply to aussiesmg:

The salamander heater is more of my concern......basically I am looking at self containing the open flame of its forced air element. Oddly enough, the heat might even help the brakes(hawk blues)

yamaha wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: I'm in for the normal "well then people will shave/heat cycle the street tires" argument....promptly followed by "Oh will someone think of the children?".

Exactly. Show me a tire rule, and I'll show you a way to exploit it. In fact, that was also part of today's discussion/history lesson.

Yes, think about the children.

In reply to yamaha:

Best advice, ask GRM who to contact at the event venue. I would consider some type of containment method as open flame and race fuel rarely agree to sharing the same space.

Or build an electric system

In reply to Swank Force One:One of the things I like about the challenge is the freedom. If you think a tractor engine is the way to go then go-go build your tractor powered dream car. Find the hidden gem and use it to your advantage. "DOT legal" and "Street Legal" "X-Treadwear" race tires are not only restrictive, they are far from the spirit of the event. There are probably 100 different types of race tire out there that may be the perfect one to make your car fastest. Heck, they may just be the one that strikes your particular balance for performance and cost. Why restrict us to fewer more expensive choices?

aussiesmg wrote: In reply to yamaha: Best advice, ask GRM who to contact at the event venue. I would consider some type of containment method as open flame and race fuel rarely agree to sharing the same space. Or build an electric system

Electric wouldn't supply the heat necessary to do the trick nor do I have a genset that could power it. I could build a box around it and put stickers on it that say "Electric heating element, danger high voltage" if that would be enough to keep those prying solo stewards away.

aussiesmg wrote: In reply to yamaha: Best advice, ask GRM who to contact at the event venue. I would consider some type of containment method as open flame and race fuel rarely agree to sharing the same space. Or build an electric system

Yeah. For something like that, we should probably talk one on one. We'd rather not set anyone on fire. Again, think about the children.

Any four-wheeled, production-based vehicle that was originally sold as a passenger vehicle

I don't see "In the United States" in there.

So, if somebody showed up with a production based European car or a Brazilian Volkswagen, that would be alright? Or is the wording of that rule the basis for a Locost being legal?

David S. Wallens wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: In reply to yamaha: Best advice, ask GRM who to contact at the event venue. I would consider some type of containment method as open flame and race fuel rarely agree to sharing the same space. Or build an electric system

Yeah. For something like that, we should probably talk one on one. We'd rather not set anyone on fire. Again, think about the Aussie.

FTFY

In reply to David S. Wallens:

Just drumming grassroots solutions out of my head for the ungrassroots problems.

Fwiw, I'd be more worried with me starting the car anywhere near the paddock than a running salamander.....it threw fireballs out the header on the stock tune before....and that's only going to get worse.

Also, Steve

In reply to Brett_Murphy:

Please bring a foreigner, if the rules do not specifically say no and it is a passenger car.... it is legal

If I could find a Falcon ute for challenge monies I would bring it with Dr Boost chained to the bed.

So is it time to start shopping for a boost buggie from Ontario since they are cracking down on the RHD cars and the ability to insure them?

I'm thinking the cheapest Evo II out there....Hummm.

I'd love to even make it to a challenge. Though now I may have a car that can qualify in that Miata.

bmw88rider wrote: So is it time to start shopping for a boost buggie from Ontario since they are cracking down on the RHD cars and the ability to insure them? I'm thinking the cheapest Evo II out there....Hummm.

Go for it.

I brought an SVX that people said couldn't be bought for the price.

I brought a MINI Cooper S that people said couldn't be bought for the price.

Next year, I am bringing something else that people will say can't be bought for the price.

Evo?? Why not.

Evo + $5 Lowes Depot grainger valve + a set of the most expensive slicks you can find = $2014 glory.

Brett_Murphy wrote:

Any four-wheeled, production-based vehicle that was originally sold as a passenger vehicle

I don't see "In the United States" in there. So, if somebody showed up with a production based European car or a Brazilian Volkswagen, that would be alright? Or is the wording of that rule the basis for a Locost being legal?

We talked about the wording here a good amount, so the openness is intentional. That means Mk.1 Escorts, Trabants, Cappuccinos, Del Reys (if you bring one of those, I will collapse in homeland flashbacks), these things are fair game. Yeah, Evos too. I wonder if shifting with the left hand will be distracting enough to make the pro drivers not be of much help in the autocross.

The kinds of things this is meant to restrict: full tube-frame race cars, formula cars, and karts. Got something that you think is borderline? Ask us before you build, or show up and take your chances.

anybody complaining about the hoosiers the leaders have needs to go to a big scca or nasa event, and hang around the tire trailers.....and fill their truck with free or sub 100$ sets of hoosiers

team gutty has so many free hoosier a6's.....all gotten this way.