GRM logic not equal to CR logic

http://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-ranks-2-america-best-made-car-brand-who-s-1

My head hurts reading this? Subaru and Audi are the best overall car brands....

Head gaskets, timing chain tensioners.. VAG! WTF? Is GRM wrong?

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Is GRM wrong?

No. But GRM tends to prefer stuff 15 years old. So if you want to know about headgasket issues on an '01 Legacy, ask here.

Subaru is number one but currently, I think they really make two cars and then just multiple configurations of those two.

100% of all Mazda's cars are recommended, too.

Brett_Murphy wrote: 100% of all Mazda's cars are recommended, too.

And rightfully so; there's a place where GRM and CR agree.

But how much does it cost to get a perfect rating from CR?

I don't get all the Subaru hate. All the ones I've owned or have worked on have never given me a bit of trouble. These is the only place on the internet where I hear such hatred of them

NickD wrote: I don't get all the Subaru hate. All the ones I've owned or have worked on have never given me a bit of trouble. These is the only place on the internet where I hear such hatred of them

I sell car parts for a living, and Subaru head gasket sets sell more than everything else combined up here in the Pacific Northwest.

Javelin wrote:

NickD wrote: I don't get all the Subaru hate. All the ones I've owned or have worked on have never given me a bit of trouble. These is the only place on the internet where I hear such hatred of them

I sell car parts for a living, and Subaru head gasket sets sell more than everything else *combined* up here in the Pacific Northwest.

Never had to put a set in. But even so, considering the fact that engines practically fall out of these after removing 2 bolts, wouldn't be that concerned. Worked on way worse engines (Ecotec 2.4L and 3.6Ls, for examples) Every other car around here in Central New York is a Subaru and everyone loves them.

My impression (as opposed to an expert opinion) is that lots of head gaskets get replaced because people don't want oil stains on their driveways (or their in-laws, or their clients, et cetera). Subaru gurus: How often do the gaskets have to be replaced because of actual lost compression, bulk fluid loss, or other significant mechanical issue, as opposed to the staining problem?

And I'm not defending Subaru, just wondering. My best friend has 225k on his Subbie and it runs great - but it's leaked oil for the last five years.

I have almost 100k miles on my 2004 Forester XT, and the passenger valve cover was leaking. The head gaskets are still doing fine. The 2003 WRX has 227k miles, and is not leaking. Both of mine are turbos, though, and apparently they have fewer problems.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Subaru is number one but currently, I think they really make two cars and then just multiple configurations of those two.

That is kind of what Subaru has always done.

I like what of my friends says about RX-8s. He says that you only have problems if you join an online forum.

Is there some confusion between head gaskets and valve cover gaskets ?

My friend bought a 97 Legacy GT new. At just over 60k (when the warranty expired), the engine did too. Some sort of internal oiling problem. The car had been serviced at the Subaru dealer, so after going up the ladder he got the engine replaced for the price of labor.

The replacement engine was pretty much DOA. Again, oiling problems. The third engine was fine.

My parents had a 97 Legacy GT. When they got it, it was on the second engine at about 60,000 miles. It was trouble-free. They sold it to that same friend of mine, who then had the head gasket fail on him gradually. Loss of compression. He's not an abusive driver, he just happened to be driving the car when the music stopped.

So, that's two Subarus. Between them, three dead engines and a head gasket job. None were particularly high mileage, the highest may have been 120k.

The current Subaru that my parents bought is having weird problems, and just got a new ECU after a bunch of emissions parts had to be replaced. That friend is also driving a Forester these days, and is finding parts are priced like premium cars but it's not one. His other cars are a Z4 (100% reliable), an Element and a 25-year-old Miata. He wishes the Subaru was as reliable as the BMW.

Both are looking to replace their Subarus, and neither is looking for a Subaru to be that replacement.

In reply to iceracer:

headgaskets also seal oil passages and on a boxer engine, I suspect the leaks there could be more prevalent.

On the Subarus, it's an 04-ish to 12-ish issue mostly, and it's loss of compression and/or coolant. They all weep oil. Seriously, I sold 3 more sets today. This is not internet hyperbole.

In reply to Kreb:

I've got a friend with one that goes through enough oil he probably could have paid somebody to put gaskets in it at this point.

Multiple friends had their STIs grenade engines without any real reason behind it other than STI motors suck balls.

In reply to Javelin:

I'm a couple hours north of Jav, can confirm that Subaru guys spend money primarily on head gaskets and plastidip.

In reply to SnowMongoose:

Monster energy stickers. You forgot monster energy stickers.

We should just start a list of cars this board hates:

1. Subaru - I have owned 5 and my mom has one.
2. VW/Audi - my wife and I have owned 6 and still have 2.
3. (Fill in the blanks).

Some of the bias is because of experience with 5-15 year old cars instead of 0-5 year old cars like most of CR surveys.
I have four friends with BRZ's, one lost a motor at 21k, another a cam gear at 86k, the other two are fine. Two of three friends with STi's had motors fail, one at 18k, the other a bit over 40. I do know a lot of happy Subaru owners as well, but I don't personally know any other brand of enthusiast cars with that kind of failure rate.
My dislike of Audi/VW comes from a 2000 TT and and 1999 Beetle. Both simultaneously wonderful and horrible.

NGTD wrote: We should just start a list of cars this board hates: 1. Subaru - I have owned 5 and my mom has one. 2. VW/Audi - my wife and I have owned 6 and still have 2. 3. (Fill in the blanks).

I have had two Subarus personally, and have bought two more for my mom.

I currently own three VWs and I've had VW before these. Two of my VWs are longitudinal ones, which seems to be the bottom of the VW pecking order (because VW people are bass ackward and the longitudinal ones are the best ones only they are too busy hitting fents and crubs to understand)

Subaru engines die because people fail to put oil in them. Or in my case, they drive to work at WOT with no coolant in the engine because late for work, blown radiator not holding water, and ran out of giving a crap that day. (May be a very small subset of Subaru engine failure)

And then there are people like Miles who had almost 300k on his when he sold it. Or the guy with the world's rattiest Legacy who we keep telling to get a new car, whose car has a rusted through fuel tank on the top right so he can't put more thanlike 3 gallons in at a time or the jet pump will fill the right side of the tank to the gushing point. I think it is something like 350k, and the car looks far worse than most vehicles that have 350k on them...

In reply to Knurled:

As much as I bitch about my 99 Passat, it was without a doubt the nicest car to drive I have owned.

I'm glad GRM and CR don't agree. CR is the most out-of-touch publication when it comes to cars, unless Cigar Montly does a drive report.
Years ago they were reviewing the Wrangler and lambasted it because of the poor fuel economy, bumpy ride, wind noise, and cramped interior. Hey moron! It's a Wrangler. It's SUPPOSED to have all those things. They didn't mention the fact that the 4.0L I6 (this was back in the early TJ years) goes for 300,000 miles without even trying, and that they go where only billy-goats dare. When they complained about the road noise it blew my mind. Look around you, there's nothing but canvas above your hip except the windshield.
Morons.
I wonder if they would complain about the fuel economy or harsh ride from a Lamborghini?