Hankook RS4s vs. Federal 595 RSRRs For Track Days?

Hi all - I'm interested to hear your experience with either tire, though more interested in feedback on the 595s.  I've heard mixed reviews about them on track, from being very good for track days to being pretty terrible as they over heat quickly.  In general reviews on the RS4s are very positive, but they are ~300 bucks more expensive for a set. 

I'm currently running Dunlop ZIII's, and they seem reasonably good.  They do get greasy about 10-15min in to a session, especially in a warm weather day.  Everyone who's run both ZIIIs and RS4s seem to prefer the RS4s for speed and wear, as far as the people I've talked to.  Not interested in RE71s or Rivals as longevity and consistency in addition to performance are the main concerns.  

Thanks much!!

The RS4 is the easy button for trackdays.  I've had sets on my Civic and my Cayman, and in both applications you could drive on them as hard as you dared and they'd just keep getting faster.  They wear like iron too.  

My friends with a Lemons team said the RS4s were way better on their Miata.  They tried to save money going with Falkens and it didn't work out for them.  They said the RS4s lasted a lot longer and took heat better. 

Full disclosure I have a set of RSR 595s in my garage.  I will report back when I know more about them. 

I saw a few sets at the last Lemons race, Toyman1's paddock maybe? I overheard somebody saying they wore really well for the price. I'd love to try a set out but it's hard moving away from something you know works.

The RS4s are like 75% more than the RSRRs, so it's not surprising that it's a better tire.  I guess the question is whether they'd be able to last 75% longer while providing a good experience (e.g., not getting greasy half way through the session, still good grip levels, etc.).  Sounds like it's probably not worth it to find out and just get the RS4s.

99 NB track toy been running 225/45/15 RS4s on 9" rims for over a year now run in both wet and hot conditions and 30 degree days at VIR/CMP/CMS

They are "fine" I feel like they lack ultimate grip and performance compared to the RC1s I had on my last miata, I bought them as a compromise because I was driving the car to the track initially.

I have had no issues and they wear quite well they can take a while to heat up but they never get really squirmy just a tiny bit at the end of a 30 minute session in higher temps 80-90+

I ran the Nexen SUR4Gs on a WRX for track tires prior as a cheaper option and they were pretty good I would choose them over the RSR

I agree with Red Stapler its very hard to over drive the RS4 which might be one of my complaints because I don't see them providing as much limit feedback as some other tires I have used but in general they have been worry free and seem to not care too much about the tire pressures

RS4s are probably the best choice for a fully treaded track day tire, they last a long time and stand up to a lot of heat.

There's a lot of variables to consider but anecdotally the guys running the 595 rr were going through them almost twice as fast as the hankook rs4s when I was comparing them about a year ago.  I've done 2 track days on my RS4s and they don't look any worse for wear yet, this is on a C5 Z06 for what it's worth.

Drivetrain layout and chassis weight matters when comparing tires in this class. What may wear quickly or get greasy and overheat on an Audi or E46 x drive, may be perfectly happy on a Miata, AW11 or EG Civic. 

bcp2011 said:.  Not interested in RE71s or Rivals as longevity and consistency in addition to performance are the main concerns. 

Just out of curiosity, what are you hearing about the RE-71s vs the RS4/595s?

It seems like more than half of the Champcar field is running them, including us.  We get about 36-48 hours of competition use out of a set, depending on the tracks we're on.  They don't really fall off at all until they're on cords and they do decent wet or dry until you have no tread left.   I also run 'em on my track Miata and get about the same amount of time & wear on them, so I only change them every other year.

How much better would the RS4s be?

WonkoTheSane said:

bcp2011 said:.  Not interested in RE71s or Rivals as longevity and consistency in addition to performance are the main concerns. 

 

Just out of curiosity, what are you hearing about the RE-71s vs the RS4/595s?

It seems like more than half of the Champcar field is running them, including us.  We get about 36-48 hours of competition use out of a set, depending on the tracks we're on.  They don't really fall off at all until they're on cords and they do decent wet or dry until you have no tread left.   I also run 'em on my track Miata and get about the same amount of time & wear on them, so I only change them every other year.

How much better would the RS4s be?

I have run my RS4s for a year and a half and can't even say I "notice" the wear on my miata. Probably 12-14 days on track? What kind of temperatures are you running the RE71s in? I thought they get greasy after about 20-30 minutes which would be bad for endurance?

Jaynen said:

I have run my RS4s for a year and a half and can't even say I "notice" the wear on my miata. Probably 12-14 days on track? What kind of temperatures are you running the RE71s in? I thought they get greasy after about 20-30 minutes which would be bad for endurance?

What size are you running?  I see they're not available in the common 205/50r15s.   

We've run anywhere from snowing (Watkins Glen in April) through 90s.  I haven't noticed any greasy feelings after 20-30 minutes, including in my own car at open track days where I've been out there for an hour or so at a time, but maybe I'm not perceptive enough?

On my NC Miata, my 225/45/17 RSRR tires lasted about 14 (20 minute) track sessions before they really slowed down, and were about at the wear bars. They would overheat after 1 fast lap, and just turn into goo. and require a cool-down lap. 

My 225/45/17 RE71R were good for 8 heat cycles before they were a bit slower, but they had tread left, and could still be driven on the street or track. They would also overheat after 1 fast lap, and require a cool-down lap.

I would like to try RS4 or RivalS1.5, but I sprung for NT01s this year in hopes of better longevity, and higher temp capability.

My take the RSRR is that it's a really good value proposition, if you are running a lot of tire for your car's weight, or maybe if you are in cooler climates than SoCal, or you don't put a lot of slip angle on the car, and generate a lot of heat in the tires.

The other big complaint about RSRR is that they are really loud tires. They make turbofan engine noises on the road. The NT01s are really quiet comparatively (if 100tw is acceptable).

WonkoTheSane said:

Jaynen said:

I have run my RS4s for a year and a half and can't even say I "notice" the wear on my miata. Probably 12-14 days on track? What kind of temperatures are you running the RE71s in? I thought they get greasy after about 20-30 minutes which would be bad for endurance?

What size are you running?  I see they're not available in the common 205/50r15s.   

We've run anywhere from snowing (Watkins Glen in April) through 90s.  I haven't noticed any greasy feelings after 20-30 minutes, including in my own car at open track days where I've been out there for an hour or so at a time, but maybe I'm not perceptive enough?

Interesting, I run the 225/45/15 on the Advanti Racing Storm 15x9s, I ran un sub 30 degree temps at VIR and then also at Charlotte Motor Speedway and CMP when it was hot hot. I doubt you are not perceptive enough I am surprised to hear they seem to wear that long. (the RE71s) honestly for me my RS4s almost wear TOO long because I want to try other tires lol.

I'll see if I can remember to take a pic of what my tires look like wear wise when I get over to the new house where the car is

gencollon said:

On my NC Miata, my 225/45/17 RSRR tires lasted about 14 (20 minute) track sessions before they really slowed down, and were about at the wear bars. They would overheat after 1 fast lap, and just turn into goo. and require a cool-down lap. 

My 225/45/17 RE71R were good for 8 heat cycles before they were a bit slower, but they had tread left, and could still be driven on the street or track. They would also overheat after 1 fast lap, and require a cool-down lap.

I would like to try RS4 or RivalS1.5, but I sprung for NT01s this year in hopes of better longevity, and higher temp capability.

 

My take the RSRR is that it's a really good value proposition, if you are running a lot of tire for your car's weight, or maybe if you are in cooler climates than SoCal, or you don't put a lot of slip angle on the car, and generate a lot of heat in the tires.

The other big complaint about RSRR is that they are really loud tires. They make turbofan engine noises on the road. The NT01s are really quiet comparatively (if 100tw is acceptable).

 

 

I am somewhat torn since I now trailer between trying the NT01 or RC1 or R888rs, I don't want to have to be super attentive to heat cycles but am interested in more ultimate grip

Then I read this 

"wildcatgoal, Aug 28, 2018

Just did Road Atlanta a full 2 seconds faster on 285 RE71Rs than I did on 305 NT01s... food for thoughts. I mean... I was in a time trial vs. HPDE, but... that's impressive still."

WonkoTheSane said:

Just out of curiosity, what are you hearing about the RE-71s vs the RS4/595s?

It seems like more than half of the Champcar field is running them, including us.  We get about 36-48 hours of competition use out of a set, depending on the tracks we're on.  They don't really fall off at all until they're on cords and they do decent wet or dry until you have no tread left.   I also run 'em on my track Miata and get about the same amount of time & wear on them, so I only change them every other year.

How much better would the RS4s be?

What I’ve read online and experienced in person is different. Vast majority seems to report that they are three lap wonders. Great for TT but not great for lapping. I’ve also been in S2ks where the first few laps are great then they need cool down laps...  Also, it seems that the life on those is relatively short, especially vs RS4s. So that’s why they’re not really in the consideration set. 

Now it’s possible that they require a type of driver or special setup to get the same life as you’re getting out of them. If so I’d be curious to hear what gets them much longer life than what I’ve read and experienced. 

If a guy was to want a tire that you could daily drive in the south 9 mos out of the year (3 months of temps POSSIBLY dipping below UHP reccomended temps) on an NB Miata with an 8" wide 15" wheel with stock height suspension and still be able to track or autocross at will, does one exist at any price?  How can I tell if a tire is affected by heat cycles? I mean, is it a case of: the stickier the tire, the greater the affect of heat cycles?  Is there a tire that performs well on the street and track without turning to junk before the tread is gone?  I can tell you a lot about offroad tires but am new to autox, track days etc so I'm used to picking whatever does well in the rain and is reasonably priced

I have Direzza Starspec IIs that came on a set of wheels I bought, and have bought a set of RE71s from a buddy who ran one time at Barber and got bigger wheels.  The were Challenge budget cheap.  The RS-RRs were at the top of the list until I heard about noise, but it's a Miata with the Roadstersport 3 exhaust and a header, it ain't quiet!

JustJim75 the RS4 is a great tire for that purpose, I would have no issue tracking it and driving it year round. They have been solid for me no issues. I would run a 205/50/15

RS4 is a great tire, I think its slightly better than the federals, but I still run the federals since my car is super hard on tires. 

I have run through two sets of the Federal RSRR tires.  The car was an E36/V8.  At the time, it probably weight around 3,000#. When I was developing the car, I was using 15" wheels, specifically for tire cost.  But with the V8, I needed more brake caliper and rotor, so I went up to 17".  My use was mostly at Summit Point Main and Shenandoah for Drivers Club or HPDE.  I'm fairly hard on tires but not awful. I spend time on getting my alignment settings and suspension setup tuned.

I liked the tires.  Way loud if I tried to use them on the road.  Okay on the road in the rain if new, but not great and I didn't really like doing it.  I was perfectly happy with them as development tires and they still weren't holding me back much when I finally got the car more or less sorted.  I didn't think of them as tires that got greasy fast, but I don't know what would happen on a heavier car.

There's less there than the more expensive favorites, but I found these to be right in a great big sweet spot for $ vs traction. I felt like I was wearing them out a little faster than NT01s, but I still came out ahead on the tire budget.  I used one set of RE-71s on that car and they went so fast, I swear they evaporated when the car was parked.

I don't have a set in my 3-rubber rotation now (Rain/street, aggressive, slicks), but as soon as a set of wheels frees up when something else cords, I'll probably get more. 

In terms of rain tires I was thinking of throwing some contis or something on my stock rims and keeping something like RS4s or more aggressive tires for warm/hot

The rs4 wear like iron.  We won the 24 hours of Nelson ledges and then raced 14 hours at gingerman with them.  2 of the tires were still good enough to run about 12 hours at pitt race.

Haven't tried the federal, because the rs4 is soooo berkeleying good.  They don't seem to ever fall off even being very aggressively driven.

The re71r is faster, but wears way faster.  If you have a very light car (around 2k or less) they will last about half as long as the rs4.  If you have a heavy car, expect to be VERY disappointed in tire life with the re71r.

I was very happy with the 245 rs4's on my m3.  I was somehow faster around roebling road on them than on a set of nt01r's on my c5. 

They seemed to wear very well but I sold the car before wearing out the tires.