Has the market for turbo Miatas dropped off significantly?

I went to look at an '01 Miata LS this weekend with a Shanghai-S Turbo system, fully documented on Miata.net.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=480171

It has the usual goodies - V-maxx coilovers, FM clutch, flywheel, some other FM chassis/suspension goodies, etc. Original seller put $15k in the car including purchase price. No P/S or A/C.

However, from browsing around the Miata forums, it looks like these types of cars have a hard time selling, with some listings dating back one or two years with no interest. My fear is that when with my automotive ADD inevitably kicks in, I will not be able to find another buyer (just as he is having trouble now). I may offer him $6k, but I doubt he will take it.

I don't know about turbo Miatas, but suspect that the market for Miatas in general is close to saturation...at least until summer really arrives. Add to that the idea that the market for heavily modified cars, like the one shown, is a very small subset of the market for used cars. My sister bought a Subaru Legacy wagon about a year ago. She had looked off and on for the better part of 6 months. The car she bought must have been modified and then had some of the mods removed as it has turned out to be a borderline lemon. She is really stuck as she has no one who knows Subarus really well in her small town and mechanics aren't keen to touch a modified car when the owner doesn't know the extent of the mods. (Car was bought from a dealer who took it in as a trade.)

FWIW, if you can wait, I would bet the owner of this car will eventually accept your offer of $6K. It may be the only legit offer he gets.

The market isn't terrible, the ones sitting around for years have unrealistic asking prices. Just by glancing through the thread, i'd say that's a $7-8k car on the best day.

"dropped off" would imply that highly modified turbo miata's used to sell quickly.

I think the market for them has remained relatively steady, though now a lot of comparable alternatives have become inexpensive (sub 10k C5 vettes, 350z, etc). Emissions requirements in certain states preclude people from buying them altogether.

This particular example is an undesirable color, chinese turbo, no ps, no a/c. I don't see it moving very quickly unless it is really cheap.

You have to make up your mind if you want to be a car flipper or not. I don't understand people that think they can purchase a car and 2 years and 30K miles later expect to sell it for the same or more $$$$. These kinds of cars a very rare. Where you find this is at he very bottom end of the car market and at the top. At the going rate of about $.50 a mile 30K miles means you have got 15K worth of use out of it. I hate worrying about the resale of a car. You spend your entire ownership experience worrying about it and thus the ownership experience is tainted. I purchase cars to have fun. To use them up and move on. OR I purchase a car with the intent of flipping it. Confusing the two is not a good thing. IF you happen to break even on purchase and sale price for a personal car (forgetting about any service or upgrades you make) that is a bonus.

If it will make you happy and you have the $$$$$ in hand to spend on it go for it and forget about the selling it on. OR haggle and shop for the best deal on one of those cars and then sell it on at a profit. However I think you have answered your own question about the market for these cars. I would probably not be looking at turbo Miata's as a place to make any $$$$$ flipping them.

In reply to calteg:

Believe it or not, people are looking for that color. I like it.

The other stuff, yeahhh.... The Chinese turbo has a good track record in that kit, however.

But end result, you have a car that you could duplicate yourself with some good shopping choices in terms of performance for well under $10k and not have to worry about what a PO did.

I'd bet the seller is asking $10-$11k for the car. I'd sell our built motor non-chinese-turbo-equipped with working a/c (ice cold) and power steering 95 for $8k.

Nobody built that car to putt around in. Much like race car part = used up car part, we can safely assume that a highly modified street car saw some serious action.

So, how much life is left in the package?

I thi9nk the amrket for nice unmolested Miatas is moving up slowly, the market for ITA and Spec Miata race cars seems solid, and the market for NC seems to have solidfied due to lower sales of these as new cars.

Modified cars are often a difficult sale, and Miata net seems to be famous for having un realistic asking prices for cars.

The best way IMHO to get your money out of a car is to drive it until it is ready for the scrap yard. I rarely sell (non collector cars) for more than a few hundred dollars, because when I am done with them, they are used up, worn out, and not worth putting any more money into.

Miata makes an excellent buy and hold forever car, as they are reliable,parts are cheap, and they are fun. However, if you live in the midwest, they do rust, which seems to kill more Miatas than Spec Miata racing, theft, collision parting out rebuildable cars, and all other causes combined.

I am still debating about rebuilding mine or finding another cleanr, less rusty car-my car isn't that bad, but if I could start with a clean car from Arizona or something....

Swank Force One wrote: In reply to calteg: Believe it or not, people are looking for that color. I like it. The other stuff, yeahhh.... The Chinese turbo has a good track record in that kit, however. But end result, you have a car that you could duplicate yourself with some good shopping choices in terms of performance for well under $10k and not have to worry about what a PO did. I'd bet the seller is asking $10-$11k for the car. I'd sell our built motor non-chinese-turbo-equipped with working a/c (ice cold) and power steering 95 for $8k.

The seller is actually asking $7200 at the moment. He's been driving it since last fall, and considering he had to take it to a mechanic to get the accessory belt changed, it doesn't seem like it needs constant attention like your typical highly modified street car.

But - my gut tells me that if I'm not chomping at the bit, it's not the right car.

OSULemon wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: In reply to calteg: Believe it or not, people are looking for that color. I like it. The other stuff, yeahhh.... The Chinese turbo has a good track record in that kit, however. But end result, you have a car that you could duplicate yourself with some good shopping choices in terms of performance for well under $10k and not have to worry about what a PO did. I'd bet the seller is asking $10-$11k for the car. I'd sell our built motor non-chinese-turbo-equipped with working a/c (ice cold) and power steering 95 for $8k.

The seller is actually asking $7200 at the moment. He's been driving it since last fall, and considering he had to take it to a mechanic to get the accessory belt changed, it doesn't seem like it needs constant attention like your typical highly modified street car. But - my gut tells me that if I'm not chomping at the bit, it's not the right car.

There's nothing about that car that SHOULD need constant attention. It's a pretty mild setup, though i didn't see in the thread what he's using to tune it.

I'd absolutely trust that car as a daily driver on paper. Both of our turbo miatas have been quite reliable, despite making a good chunk more power than that car.

I don't think the market has softened. However, there are definitely different levels to it and you have to look at the specific car. The big thing on this car is the lack of AC, followed by the lack of PS. That's okay for a track rat, but not for a leather-lined street car. What was done to that car to fit the Shanghai parts may also be a factor if the car doesn't present well.

Overall, this could be a pretty good deal for someone. Normally, I'd expect a car like that to sell quickly for that price (with an FM turbo system and the AC/PS) unless it's got some sort of problem. Losing the AC/PS probably cost this guy a couple of thousand, though.

Keith Tanner wrote: I don't think the market has softened. However, there are definitely different levels to it and you have to look at the specific car. The big thing on this car is the lack of AC, followed by the lack of PS. That's okay for a track rat, but not for a leather-lined street car. What was done to that car to fit the Shanghai parts may also be a factor if the car doesn't present well. Overall, this could be a pretty good deal for someone. Normally, I'd expect a car like that to sell quickly for that price (with an FM turbo system and the AC/PS) unless it's got some sort of problem. Losing the AC/PS probably cost this guy a couple of thousand, though.

I agree, if it was a FM kit and retained the A/C at least, I would have been all over it. However...since I'm willing to fly'n'drive, I can hold out for the right car.

Used V8 miatas are looking more and more tempting anyways.

There's another used FM-built V8 coming to market soon - but not for $7200.

When I sold my Miata I was shocked how many people wanted to know what it would take to get the A/C working again.

IT'S A CONVERTIBLE!

I bet no less than eight people emailed me that exact question.

Right. Here i am trying to figure out how to remove power steering but KEEP A/C pretty much for the reason that if we sell it, people will want A/C.

But also because we're running hardtop 100% of the time now.

In Canada, Miatas are accepted without AC. Not in the US. Yes, it's a convertible. But that doesn't change the market.

belteshazzar wrote: When I sold my Miata I was shocked how many people wanted to know what it would take to get the A/C working again. IT'S A CONVERTIBLE! I bet no less than eight people emailed me that exact question.

A/C is kinda nice when you're stuck in berkeleying traffic, cooking your nuts, on 90+ degree days where the humidity is around 60%. You know, the two weeks of summer we get in Portland. Otherwise, once you're moving, having the top down works great and is a lot of fun.

This is a really trivial reason, but I'm of the fairer-skinned variety, and cruising with the top down for any length of time will turn me a nice lobster color. I've even tried rolling with the window down, but now my left arm is significantly tanner than the right. For that reason, most of my top-down driving is done on cloudy days or in the evenings.

The rest of the time, I'd prefer A/C.

I'm a big 'ol girly man.

I actually took my parents' Miata on a road trip a couple of years ago in Canada. Right in the middle of a record-setting heat wave. After spending an hour or so in traffic in Montreal, in the usual sunken concrete highway with trucks all around - it doesn't matter if the top goes up or down if there's no airflow. That was one miserable day.

OSULemon wrote: This is a really trivial reason, but I'm of the fairer-skinned variety, and cruising with the top down for any length of time will turn me a nice lobster color. I've even tried rolling with the window down, but now my left arm is significantly tanner than the right. For that reason, most of my top-down driving is done on cloudy days or in the evenings. The rest of the time, I'd prefer A/C. I'm a big 'ol girly man.

For me, I love cruising with the run roof out/top down, etc. However, I'm part Irish and part Scandinavian and Melanoma runs in my family and I work indoors, so yeah me and the sun don't get along. I feel your pain, my lobster brother....

turboswede wrote:

belteshazzar wrote: When I sold my Miata I was shocked how many people wanted to know what it would take to get the A/C working again. IT'S A CONVERTIBLE! I bet no less than eight people emailed me that exact question.

A/C is kinda nice when you're stuck in berkeleying traffic, cooking your nuts, on 90+ degree days where the humidity is around 60%. You know, the two weeks of summer we get in Portland. Otherwise, once you're moving, having the top down works great and is a lot of fun.

Exactly. It was common for me to drive my NC with the top down and A/C on since it's so damn hot in OK during the summer.

Keith Tanner wrote: I actually took my parents' Miata on a road trip a couple of years ago in Canada. Right in the middle of a record-setting heat wave. After spending an hour or so in traffic in Montreal, in the usual sunken concrete highway with trucks all around - it doesn't matter if the top goes up or down if there's no airflow. That was one miserable day.

That was pretty much our experience in LA about a week after we came out to see you guys.

Keith Tanner wrote: I actually took my parents' Miata on a road trip a couple of years ago in Canada. Right in the middle of a record-setting heat wave. After spending an hour or so in traffic in Montreal, in the usual sunken concrete highway with trucks all around - it doesn't matter if the top goes up or down if there's no airflow. That was one miserable day.

I drove my Miata to the FM open house back in 2003. Coming up the 15 heading into Baker, CA the tallest thermometer in the world said it was 116 degrees. The car had AC, but with the intercooler in the nose, turning it on would overheat the car. So yeah, that was pretty miserable. :)

codrus wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: I actually took my parents' Miata on a road trip a couple of years ago in Canada. Right in the middle of a record-setting heat wave. After spending an hour or so in traffic in Montreal, in the usual sunken concrete highway with trucks all around - it doesn't matter if the top goes up or down if there's no airflow. That was one miserable day.

I drove my Miata to the FM open house back in 2003. Coming up the 15 heading into Baker, CA the tallest thermometer in the world said it was 116 degrees. The car had AC, but with the intercooler in the nose, turning it on would overheat the car. So yeah, that was pretty miserable. :)

When i picked the MSM up in Oceanside and was driving to FM in the dead of summer, i decided i would drive all the way there in my fancy new convertible, the first convertible we ever had.

About an hour inland my skin was all NOPE NOPE NOPE. Worst idea ever.

Car is over priced. It might be well built but I agree with Keith in that AC/PS is almost essential for a decent resale in the market. I'm living proof. If I saw a car that had tons of mods and no AC I turned the page. No use even considering it. Living in VA if you have a car without AC you can bet it won't be useful for at least 3 months out of the year. Parts further south are even worse for hot weather. It might be a convertible but driving a convertible at night when it's 90+ with 80% humidity is like standing in front of a dryer vent while drying a load of wet towels. The air might be moving but it's still damned hot and wet.

That car with an FM system, AC, and PS could command a five figure price for the right buyer. The price on that chinese kit is so tempting but the resale just isn't there.