Hassled by the Police? (Not OT)

So this is a new one on me. The club I race with a lot was holding an autocross test and tune/practice event outside of a local cruise. This was an evening event with a regular race following the next day. They had all the appropriate permission, insurance, secured site, etc. Apparently, several officers showed up and threatened to shut the event down. (I want to make it clear I wasn't there for this part, this is all 2nd hand stuff here) Apparently, after talking with our speed coordinator, most of the officers were statisfied they weren't doing anything wrong, but one particular state trooper said he thought it was "reckless driving", implying he thought he could ticket participants, although he didn't end up doing so. The next day, (I was there for this part - BTW) after running the first of two sessions, the superintendant of the school who's lot we were using called and said that they didn't know we were racing full sized cars when he gave permission. He had been provided the club's website and several videos from previous events before giving permission, so if he didn't know, its because he didn't look at what was sent to him. He also said that if he didn't shut us down, the police were going to shortly. (How he knew that is an interesting question, because we hadn't heard anything from the police during the regular event. I suspect he was pressured by the police to withdraw permission, but obviously don't know that for sure.)

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the police wanting to keep hooning to a minimum during the cruise event. Its very congested both with cars and pedestrians. But really, autocross = reckless driving? I hate being lumped in with the morons doing burnouts in bumper to bumper traffic. That's a new one on me.

Damn. That's crazy.

The worst I've seen is cops sitting at the opposite end of the straightaway shooting radar to make sure we were within the 'speed limit'. (I guess we had promised to keep it under a certain limit as part of the agreement with the land owner)

Private property, not public road. No authority.

(Not sure about a public school)

We had a similar problem at our first event. Some Barney Fife pulled in front of the timing tent with a car on course and shut us down. He quoted a state law concerning speeding on school property. In his interpretation, any speeding was banned. Never mind that the lot was coned off with corner workers controlling access. IMO, that's like showing up at a football game and shutting it down for fighting on school property. In reality, many more injuries occur at football games.

Since then, we've had better luck running on school properties. We've also had many supportive/friendly cops show up at events. You must be prepared with all documentation in case they check on an event. It's a crap shoot whether you get one with a burr up his ass.

kazoospec wrote: one particular state trooper said he thought it was "reckless driving", implying he thought he could ticket participants, although he didn't end up doing so.

Federal law states an officer must call his supervisor when asked to while being questioned. This would probably be a time to ask for a supervisor.

In reply to kazoospec:

The club I race with a lot was holding an autocross test and tune/practice event outside of a local cruise.

Did anyone think this wouldn't be a good idea? Sure the club is not the cruise, but you are asking for being lumped in when timing like this occurs.

Still sucks though the way the club was treated. We have similar problems here in Vermont because of the closeness of the small communities.

I've only ever been to one autocross where the cops were called out, apparently someone in the nearby snooty development believed that street racers were racing around the high school.

The officer was pretty cool after he saw all the timing equipment and safety gear, but basically said that he wouldn't be surprised if they were called out every time an autocross was held there.

Sounds like the club needs to initiate some PR meetings with the local police and State Police; get them involved.

Set-up appointments, bring a laptop and show them the info and video that was shown to the school superintendent. Invite the police to attend, observe and even compete at your events.

Good luck...............

the cops show up at our autox events all the time. They flip on the cherries, and then trip the timing lights and take a run or two.

Our first auto cross on the college parking lot, a deputy sherriff showed up. Said he just wanted to see what was going on etc. Said it looks like fun. then he left.

N Sperlo wrote:

kazoospec wrote: one particular state trooper said he thought it was "reckless driving", implying he thought he could ticket participants, although he didn't end up doing so.

Federal law states an officer must call his supervisor when asked to while being questioned. This would probably be a time to ask for a supervisor.

Can you provide some citation for this... I'd like to read it for future reference. Does anyone know if federal law automatically trumps local municipality laws and ordinances?

darkbuddha wrote: Can you provide some citation for this... I'd like to read it for future reference. Does anyone know if federal law automatically trumps local municipality laws and ordinances?

It is supposed to, but local PD can choose to ignore it based on the fact that they likely will not be brought to federal court. Think California and marijuana.

darkbuddha wrote:

N Sperlo wrote:

kazoospec wrote: one particular state trooper said he thought it was "reckless driving", implying he thought he could ticket participants, although he didn't end up doing so.

Federal law states an officer must call his supervisor when asked to while being questioned. This would probably be a time to ask for a supervisor.

Can you provide some citation for this... I'd like to read it for future reference. Does anyone know if federal law automatically trumps local municipality laws and ordinances?

I've been an assistant prosecutor for over 10 years and never heard of this. Not saying its impossible just because I haven't heard about it, but I tend to doubt there's any specific federal law on that issue. Its generally a matter of good police practice when a citizen asks for a supervisor to honor the request, and most officers I know are more than happy to allow someone drawing administrative pay to make the questionable calls. That said, if an officer tells you to stop doing something, you pretty much have to stop it or it'll end up being way more trouble than its worth. Hopefully, its just a isolated incident for us.

Should have told the superintendant that he was in breach of contract (assuming a rental fee was paid for the lot).....

bureaucrats care more about the extra money coming in to their organizaition than they do about making the police angry...and school districts need every last cent they can get.

Irish: Basically, I think the club correctly decided if they didn't want us, we'd just politely pack our bags and not come back next year. We aren't hurting for places to run. The sad thing is it was a charity race, and the lost afternoon session and after event fun run fees were being donated by the club. What's more, the school's band boosters were running concessions, so they lost out on afternoon and evening concession sales. Members had taken several of the boosters on rides and the boosters were able to see that we ran the ENTIRE EVENT without a single spin or anyone even getting seriously out of shape. We were told from the beginning that it was an exhibition event and we needed to run at 8/10ths to make sure we made a good impression on the community, and everyone had been careful to follow that rule. Hopefully some of the boosters will care enough to let the "powers that be" know were weren't a bunch of out of control hoons.

that is a shame.. but look at it this way, Kazoo. You have a big cruise going on and a group "hooning" off in a parking lot. I think they were afraid that some younger members of the club would get the idea they could go off an hoon too.

I do think they could have gone about it a LOT better though

Our club holds a for-charity challenge every year between several different LEO jurisdictions. They each send one officer in a marked car, and the winnner gets a trophy for the department. We never have a problem with the law.

Though we did find that strobes tripped our timing lights.

mad_machine wrote: that is a shame.. but look at it this way, Kazoo. You have a big cruise going on and a group "hooning" off in a parking lot. I think they were afraid that some younger members of the club would get the idea they could go off an hoon too. I do think they could have gone about it a LOT better though

I think the whole idea from the club's perspective was to present autocross as an alternative to street hooning. BTW - the club intentionally chose a location a block off from the main cruise street so our event would be seen as related to, but separate from, the cruise event. We did get a nice news story out of it though, so hopefully that goal was met.

The locals and the local police used to come and watch the auto x's at Clemson.

The police rent their training center to us for autocrosses in Lake County, FL. (...and the Porsche club, and the Jaguar club...)

Get on the school's good side....if any members of your club instruct for Street Survival classes, they - along with the GRM issue talking about it - would be great ambassadors. Have them talk to the school, point out how this partnership is good for the community, how autocross events give kids an outlet so they are less likely to street race, etc.

haha... they used the woord "hoon"

that is all lol...

some traffic laws apply to private lots, depends upon where you live, the lot, etc.

The issue here is that law enforcement had some objection to the activity being done where it was being done. The question is: why? You should be able to contact someone and get some info explaining it.

One of our autocross lots is directly next door to a State Police barracks. We've never had more than cursory interest from them.

same with us... a satellite NCHP station directly across the street from our lot... the only interest they show is busting the E36 M3 out of the occasional shiny happy person that we get that leaves is stupid manner