our 2010 Saab 9-3 has halogen projectors for low beams and uses H11 bulbs. AW complains of not enough light down the road, and i'm wondering if projectors have the same issue as reflectors when changing from an actual bulb to an LED "bulb". ie poor pattern down the road, and excessive glare for oncoming drivers, because the LED isn't in the correct spot relative to the reflector? IDK enough about projectors to answer this myself, and I haven't found anything definitive on the interweb.
My brother's Tacoma was converted to led in the projector without issues being noted. My only data point.
Yes it is a very common problem with LED "bulb" retrofits, so it's best to switch to a LED housing if possible, that's what I did on my Samurai. Other than that you'll have to research which "bulb" models have a good pattern and search those out.
I went to LED on the Mazda with halogen projectors. If you get LEDs which are adjustable (emitters relative to the base), you can normally get a good result- I've got a good, well defined pattern and no noticeable glare/stray light
I went with Hikari LEDs which got good reviews, back in 2020
In reply to paul_s0 :
How do you adjust them? Shims/washers of different thicknesses?
It's a rotational adjustment, as the emitters are opposed 180°, in my case they're clocked at 90/270° (0° being straight up), and they give a nice sharp cut off. Where they lack is throw- they'll never be as good as a HID for that. LED low beam works, but I'd like a good pair of spots (like my old Hella Rallyes with 100w Halogen)
In reply to paul_s0 :
thank you for this description. google helped me find several LED bulbs which can be rotated as you describe. definitely going to go this route.
next question: some LED bulbs have tiny cooling fans built in, and others just have finned heat sinks. seems to me that the fans are just another failure point. any opinions or data on that?
The majority of LED bulbs out now are in the 6000-6500k range for light spektrum which I find too blue. There are some down at 5000k which is a nicer white light in my opinion but there aren't as many options.
Keep in mind, it's not really that the LEDs make bad light for you, it's that - depending on the housing - they make it terrible for everyone else. I put LEDs in the buckets of my Mazda and after the third time getting pulled over for having high beams on (I didn't) I switched back to incandescent.
From the driver's seat, I thought they were great. Cops didn't think it was so great.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:our 2010 Saab 9-3 has halogen projectors for low beams and uses H11 bulbs. AW complains of not enough light down the road, and i'm wondering if projectors have the same issue as reflectors when changing from an actual bulb to an LED "bulb". ie poor pattern down the road, and excessive glare for oncoming drivers, because the LED isn't in the correct spot relative to the reflector? IDK enough about projectors to answer this myself, and I haven't found anything definitive on the interweb.
In short, the answer is yes. I run into the same problem with theatrical ellipsoidal lighting. You can't just change the shape of the light source and have it work. It doesn't seem like much, but when your focal distance is only a few mm, it's huge. You're going from a long skinny filament to a square LED.
Thanks for asking this, I've been wondering the same thing about if LEDs were OK in a projector housing. One Saab-specific issue with the projectors (at least with the early model 9-3 Sports Sedan - mine is an '04), is that the reflective material for the projectors degrades over time. I polished my headlights, but the output never improved on low beams. High beams didn't use the projector, and those were fine. I bought some new DEPO headlights from Rock Auto for around $110 each or so, and they solved the problem. I also run Sylvania XtraVision bulbs to give a little more light, as well.
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) said:I bought some new DEPO headlights from Rock Auto for around $110 each or so, and they solved the problem. I also run Sylvania XtraVision bulbs to give a little more light, as well.
i just bought a passenger side DEPO assembly for $145-ish on Amazon. also looking for one locally that i can disassemble to get some dimensions. i just found out that an old friend works for the company that owns Morimoto, so i'm maybe gonna build a set of killer headlights for it.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:dj06482 (Forum Supporter) said:I bought some new DEPO headlights from Rock Auto for around $110 each or so, and they solved the problem. I also run Sylvania XtraVision bulbs to give a little more light, as well.
i just bought a passenger side DEPO assembly for $145-ish on Amazon. also looking for one locally that i can disassemble to get some dimensions. i just found out that an old friend works for the company that owns Morimoto, so i'm maybe gonna build a set of killer headlights for it.
Can't wait to see the Morimoto's in it! The TYCs and DEPOs were a similar price on RA, but the TYCs were a significant amount more to ship than the DEPOs, so that made the decision easy for me. At the recommendation of the Saab 9-3 FB group, I did run a bead of clear silicone around the perimeter of the light to (hopefully) prevent water intrusion. Not sure it will help, but I figured it wouldn't hurt!
I have DEPOs with morimoto mini h1s installed in the e30 & love them. I have not used their led projectors yet but they normally offer very good quality. They even offer a laser LED if you really want to get fancy. Be sure to post up pics
I've done two Morimoto retrofits, on my 2005 Focus, I opened the housings and installed mini H1's, they were good. On my 2015 WRX with stock halogen projectors I installed HID bulbs and they were also good, with quite a clean cutoff, but I gather not all cars are as lucky and HID bulbs don't always give good results. I ended up having some issues with parts failing after a number of years, got fed up and bought some LED's locally. After a couple days I ordered a replacement HID kit, the LED's were so bad, so dim. I kept checking to make sure the lights were on since they were so dim I couldn't really tell. Now they make brighter LED's, but I'm not a fan.
For halogen projectors, nayve give HID's a try, otherwise, install projectors in the housings.
Dumb question I have is are they aimed correctly?
In my experience, Morimoto hardware is usually about as good as it gets for aftermarket retrofit lighting. Their projector retros absolutely rock. YMMV, though, apparently.
as seen here, i added Hikari LED bulbs which i bought through Amazon. they work great in the OEM projector housings. Dusterbd13 recommended these specific bulbs because the LED elements can be rotated relative to the base, which definitely makes a difference in beam pattern down the road.
anyway, the only issues are they set "Low Beam Left" and "Low Beam Right" faults at startup, and they flicker at shutdown. Again per Duster's recommendation, I contacted Hikari through Amazon customer service and they're sending me a set of their inline resistors which should fix the faults and the flicker.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:our 2010 Saab 9-3 has halogen projectors for low beams and uses H11 bulbs. AW complains of not enough light down the road, and i'm wondering if projectors have the same issue as reflectors when changing from an actual bulb to an LED "bulb". ie poor pattern down the road, and excessive glare for oncoming drivers, because the LED isn't in the correct spot relative to the reflector? IDK enough about projectors to answer this myself, and I haven't found anything definitive on the interweb.
In short, the answer is yes. I run into the same problem with theatrical ellipsoidal lighting. You can't just change the shape of the light source and have it work. It doesn't seem like much, but when your focal distance is only a few mm, it's huge. You're going from a long skinny filament to a square LED.
the Source4 LED caps work well though. Have not tried the pars yet.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:anyway, the only issues are they set "Low Beam Left" and "Low Beam Right" faults at startup, and they flicker at shutdown. Again per Duster's recommendation, I contacted Hikari through Amazon customer service and they're sending me a set of their inline resistors which should fix the faults and the flicker.
Thanks for the update. Re: flickering, there's a lot of talk on Saab Central about using a Tech2 to change a setting to allow LEDs to work. If the inline resistors work, that's even better. Following closely, you can never have too much light!
Pardon the thread jack, but since this one is active, makes sense not to start another.
As seen elsewhere, we are updating the One Lap CRX for another go at the big show this year. The headlights are marginal at best. 13 years ago, the hot ticket was to put a high beam bulb into the low beam socket. Both are T4 halogens, but the high beam is 65 watts/1860 lumens, while the original low beam is 55 watts/1096 lumens. Worked pretty good, but nothing like modern tech.
Given how old the car is, there is not much off-the-shelf available other than some cheap, Chinese projectors marketed more for their angel eyes than anything else.
Thoughts? Where should I start?
Andy Hollis said:Pardon the thread jack, but since this one is active, makes sense not to start another.
As seen elsewhere, we are updating the One Lap CRX for another go at the big show this year. The headlights are marginal at best. 13 years ago, the hot ticket was to put a high beam bulb into the low beam socket. Both are T4 halogens, but the high beam is 65 watts/1860 lumens, while the original low beam is 55 watts/1096 lumens. Worked pretty good, but nothing like modern tech.
Given how old the car is, there is not much off-the-shelf available other than some cheap, Chinese projectors marketed more for their angel eyes than anything else.
Thoughts? Where should I start?
paging Dusterbd13 to the GRM courtesy phone...
and please refresh my memory, what year is the CRX?
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:paging Dusterbd13 to the GRM courtesy phone...
and please refresh my memory, what year is the CRX?
1989
I see some LED bulb options on TheRetrofitSource.com...some of which were mentioned above.
In reply to Andy Hollis :
most of what i've read says LED bulbs in reflector housings generally suck for putting light down the road. projectors handle the light differently, at least as far as horizontal cutoff goes. I'm very happy with the Hikari LED bulbs in the OE projectors (designed for halogen bulbs) in our Saab. If there's an affordable projector housing available for the CRX, you might buy a set and test with different bulb types.
when does OLOA start?
So my question for you Andy is, do you still have the original glass housing? If you do, that is one set of options. If not it's a whole different conversation. My personal preference for that car for ultimate night visibility in your intended application would be to get a set of clear replacement headlight housings. Bake them to separate them, and put some miramoto H1 projectors in them with some 55 watt Xenon bulbs and ballasts from miramoto in there. Whatever the latest stuff is from the retrofit source will be the best stuff but even a couple of generations old will be Head and Shoulders above anything else that would be put in there.
Edit for an ok link: Build thread that doesn't suck
You'll need to log in to post.
