Help Me Pick My . . .

I went to the very local Secret Car Club rallyX (they’re not really advertising) to see what I could see. It looked kinda fun, well run and casual – me thinks I’ll go play. I had hoped I would get a better idea of what car would be something I could be competitive in. Turns out not-so-much, because too much possibilities. I gotta narrow that down, hence, this post. 

I want to have a chance at being competitive. I have years of driving experience; autoX, what is now called time trials, road racing, some dirt oval races and 1 off road race. I know I won’t be instantly competitive, but I want a car that I can work up to.

When I say “car” here it is a general reference. I would be open to a small SUV, or a Ranger (probably not huh), or . . ? Whatever it may be I imagine, if I like the car it will likely become a dedicated rallyX car – but street licensed. I will possibly run in Stock to start – that would depend on what condition the car is in. If need be I’ll run in Prepared. But knowing me I will build it beyond Stock.

Here is some info that narrows down the options:

-Budget: 3k max, would prefer 2k – yes, I know that narrows it a lot.

-Running, because I don’t need or want another non-runner project. I would like to drive it home.

-Some upgrade and replacement parts fairly available from U-Pick yards

-No turbos,

-I am sticking to 4 cylinder cars because that is where 95% of my driving experience is. They are also somewhat less expensive to operate.

A few thoughts on cars that have come to mind are:

-Former IT car – Pinto, Volvo, BMW

-Mitsu Eclipse or Lancer, Neon, Ford Escort GT/ZX2, Tiburon,

-Re; Subarus – I like them BUT, it seems like Subs have a variety of issues and I don’t feel like dealing with that if I can avoid it. A Brat comes to mind.

-I don’t really like: Nissans, or water cooled VWs,

I like carburetion. I know that isn’t modern but I can tune them. So I will likely be in an injected car.

Questions:

1. There are a lot of automatic trans cars out there. Should I consider an auto?

2. FWD? RWD? AWD/4x?              

3. The local place is a dirt parking lot and is fairly flat and smooth. Are other tracks like that or is ground clearance a consideration?

4.Does off road or dirt oval translate to rallyX?

Well I don't know much about what it takes to be actually competitive in rallyx, though I did own a Neon for a bit that had been built for that purpose by one of the Ohio Valley region guys on here. That was a fun car but I'm not sure how many of those are still around.

I'd think if you're planning to modify a 2wd towards being competitive, a question to ask might be: what cars have or can I find a limited slip for?

My 1st gen Neon rocked for rallycross.  Not sure if you can find one now though.  I won the Rallycross Stock FWD national championship in mine back in 2007.  At a local event I got second fastest time overall, missing first by 0.01 seconds to a modified Evo.

If you can, get something with a limited slip.  Unfortunately your only options in that price range are likely a beat miata or Civic Si, or a slightly less beat B15 Sentra.

I had a love hate relationship with my B15 Sentra, but it performed well on course.  How well I couldn't tell you as locally the competition was not deep so no other 2WD cars ever really got close to us.

Rallyx is less about the car than the driver. 

For two years, I dominated MR class with a 2006 P71 Crown Vic running snow tires on Mustang wheels. I spent most of my childhood bombing around on dirt roads in the country in an assortment of vehicles so I have a pretty good idea of how to put a car where I want it. 

The CV is bullet proof. We would put 10 drivers through the car in a day doing back-to-back runs. It just kept going. 

This was taken after Mud Cross. 

The guy that dominated SF was driving an automatic Nissan Sentra. 

Just buy a strong platform and get as much wheel time as you can. And remember a cone strike is a couple of seconds but a gate penalty is 10. Times are cumulative over the day. Don't miss the gate, hit the damn cone. 

What is going to be competitive locally can be very different than what is going to be competitive nationally and really depends on the region. 

For example, locally to me a P71 wouldn't have a chance at being competitive in any RWD class but in other regions you could be successful with it as Toyman mentioned. 

Get something you enjoy and want to drive and get lots of seat time. You'll either be competitive in it or know what you need to change to be competitive. 

B15 Sentra SER Spec V  - its a narrow window but they are out there.  2.5L engine, 6 sp manual, locking diff.  IIRC one placed nationally this year. 

Cheap parts available everywhere. 

The SER Spec-V should be very good.  If you can find one.

Suzuki SX4 ? 
Awd locking diff and more traction than power . Probably not competitive against the subies but there's only one way to find out. 

You can probably get a Volvo 240 for $2k depends on where you live.

Regarding limited slips – I appreciate the reminders, but I think their availability is . . . limited

Regarding Datsun/Nissans, I have a hate / hate relationship with them. . If I have to relieve myself in a wrecking yard I look for the nearest Nissan. I was abused by Datsuns as a young autoXer – hard NO on them.

In reply to ProDarwin

Right now the local competition is quite small. So I should be able to get a good amount of seat time.

In reply to parker

When I downloaded the SCCA rules I saw a list of champs there and I saw yours – congrats. 1st gen Neons came to mind but they are rare-ish in AZ.

In reply to Toyman!

Ha ha, that looks like a blast and P71s did come to mind and I want one, but for other purposes.

I appreciate the (damn) cone/gate info – I was not aware. As far as the driver is concerned I expect to learn much and will get as much seat time as possible.

In reply to Evan B

The RX program is pretty new here in northern AZ and not a lot of SCCA types either. Most of what I saw were Subarus. I’ll have to look at the past results to see what is ‘the car’. Agreed on “lots of seat time”.

In reply to 1 SlowVW

I haven’t seen a Suzuki SX4 around here ever. 

In reply to Racebrick

There was a Volvo 240 t the event I saw. The guy did well and looked smooth on the course. But few 240s around hre.

Like Evan said competitive is highly dependent on who else shows up. In probably 95% of regions if you're a half decent driver (and can avoid cones) you can be competitive in just about anything.

I would shy away from the crown vic, they're just big and heavy on what are usually fairly tight courses. I've seen a few run and they never look like they work very well. And the auto trans might not be awful but it's not going to improve the experience. Definitely avoid trucks, for most of the same reasons.

Can you even buy a running, driving car for $2-3k these days? In that budget range you're almost certainly looking at fwd, or maybe a subaru that's living on borrowed time. In fwd and awd I'm not sure any particular platform has much of an advantage. The bigger deal is figuring out which tires work best and optimizing tire pressures. (actually that applies to rwd too, but given the budget restriction I don't think that's really going to be an option)

Sites vary widely, but generally speaking stock ground clearances are fine. My boxster had a quoted 4.13" of ground clearance (we ran slightly taller tires though) and a fairly large front overhang, it would occasionally drag the nose a bit on more rutted courses but never caused any issues.

Not sure about off road racing but dirt oval might transfer over some. Autocross does as long as you aren't the kind of driver that spends all day demolishing the course and making big mistakes and then pulls one flyer run out at the end.

P71s are not awful on large, open courses.  The lack of a center console to brace your leg against is the biggest problem.

My answer is always Neon but GFL finding a Neon in decent shape.  They were engineered to a certain target and the newest ones are well older than that target.  The first generation ones are the ones to have, but even then, things like wiring harnesses and firewalls were failing in competition cars while they were still being produced.  (Engine rock would flex the harness and damage it)

Likewise, CRXs are friggin' awesome but they are very dear nowadays.

Mostly, smaller is better than bigger, and what you are comfortable with is more important than a theoretical goal.  If you have a lot of experience with a certain vehicle, run THAT.  Better still, if you already have a suitable vehicle, run THAT before you spend any money.  "Suitable" meaning it is wider than it is tall and will pass tech.   Vehicles I have rallycrossed in no particular order: Crown Vic, four different RX-7 (three of them mine), two different Miatas (one turbocharged and one not), three different Neons (one a former Challenge entry, heavily turbocharged), five GC Imprezas (four 2.5RSs, one of which was RWD for an event on purpose, one 2.2l OBS), three different GD Imprezas (two were auto, one was an auto WRX... and the manual trans was a wagon), two different VW Golfs (A2 and A3), VW Quantum Syncro, four cylinder Volvo S40, Volvo S60R, Nissan Sentra (B12), probably more I am forgetting, like the ex-Production GT Omni GLH, or the Integra-engined first gen CRX that I am fairly sure went to the $2001 Challenge...

In closing, the answer is Miata.

Since Neon and Sentras have already been covered, and water cooled VWs are out, I'm thinking:
1st Gen Ford Focus
Mazda Protege
Civic

Being in Arizona, rust isn't likely an issue, so you might be able to dig up an older, lighter car that just isn't available in other areas. Plus, you may not be far from California, and cars that can no longer pass smog there might be dirt cheap.

Really, though, getting *anything* out on course is better than trying to find the best thing and not driving. 

I went on Craigslist a few years back and filtered my search to show everything in the 1k-2k price range with a manual transmission. The result was one of the best cars I've ever owned. $1,800 cash. '97 Impreza outback sport with fender rust and seized calipers. Those EJ engines were trusted in the air in the form of kit planes / light aircraft for a reason. A little TLC and I drove that car hard at well over 300k miles. Definitely regret selling. Would have been a solid rally car. 

Another often overlooked car is the BMW E34 525i. A little heavy but well balanced. Those pop up on FB and CL and can sometimes be in pretty rough shape cosmetically but the same M50 i6 engine is used in NASA Spec 3 and other E36 racing series. It's a cast iron block that's hard to kill. The Auto trans are built by GM and can sometimes be finicky though. 

At the core here is the need to buy a running or nearly running car for less than $2k.  I am not an RXer but what comes to mind in that price range is a 3 Dr Fors Focus.  Maybe even a 2 Dr Ford ZX2 Escort.

The world is rejecting sedans and even more so 2 door cars, especially with a manual trans. 

I would just sort your local FB/CL for manual trans only and see what pops up. 

In reply to L5wolvesf :

Low budget?  Reliable engine?  Does 4x4 help or hurt?   
      I know you said 4 cylinder. But would you consider an inline 6?   They are just as simple to work on and are inheritedly balanced. ( they last longer)  little more bottom end grunt.  
     Automatics are something that actually outlast manual gearboxes. Well,  not the gearbox but the clutch. 
  If the fluid has been changed every 65-70,000 miles I've trailered a lot of really heavy things with them without ever any problems over 300 , 000 miles.
      I've noticed one driving flaw that does hurt an automatic.  Some drivers shift into drive and as the transmission is engaging they already are flooring it.   If you take a 1/2 a breath and let the transmission get fully into gear  you won't be burning the clutch packs up so fast.  Or take it to a transmission shop and have them convert it to a manual shift.   ( that typically involves removing a ball and increasing the pack pressure. ). 
     Doing that takes all the smoothness out of shifting  but saves the clutch packs forever•••• 

      The Chevy. & GMC  Trailblazer and Envoy ( plus there is a Buick one).  Have a extremely reliable engine.  Plus suspension geometry that just works.  ( standard wheelbase not the extended one) 

    The other advantage of those is they are easy to sleep in. I'm a low buck guy so I hate spending money on hotels. 

frenchyd said:

      The Chevy. & GMC  Trailblazer and Envoy ( plus there is a Buick one).  Have a extremely reliable engine.  Plus suspension geometry that just works.  ( standard wheelbase not the extended one) 

    The other advantage of those is they are easy to sleep in. I'm a low buck guy so I hate spending money on hotels. 

Are you recommending a rallycross vehicle or tow vehicle?

A Trailblazer is absolutely not going to work for rallycross, even if you find an event you are allowed to run it at. 

Wait you don't choose your rallycross cars based on your ability to sleep in them?

dps214 said:

Wait you don't choose your rallycross cars based on your ability to sleep in them?

RX-7s sleep two

dps214 said:

Wait you don't choose your rallycross cars based on your ability to sleep in them?

I've slept in a Miata...once.

 First, Thank You for all the replies – it is appreciated.

Regarding the budget:

The limitation is due to something I haven’t brought up here. The lady I was with since 2000 passed away in 2021. So I now have a house payment etc to handle on my own. So I do have to be somewhat adult about this project.

The $2-3k budget is what I am willing to pay – not the seller’s asking price. Yes fairly decent running, driving cars are available for $2-3k in AZ. I could grab several to use as daily drivers if that was what I needed.

Regarding my search:

I have been going through FB and CL locally (north central AZ) and throughout AZ. I also look at CA CO MN and NV

Regarding my sleeping quarters:

The local site is about 20 minutes from my house. I do not fold as well as I used to. If I do national events I will camp/KOA or hotel.

More replies later

EvanB said:

dps214 said:

Wait you don't choose your rallycross cars based on your ability to sleep in them?

I've slept in a Miata...once.

Ow... reading that made my back hurt :P