hemi challenge car

Digging up an old thread to update the non-related 4G63 info as I was very intrigued by the Frankendart. This showed up on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170411336626

So, if somebody wanted a T56+ 4G63/4G64 combo, your wishes have just come true. Very cool. I think it's coming from this guy, but I'm not sure...

http://www.billsautofab.com/

To bring it back on topic...any update on the challenge car?

Bryce

I'd like to swap a late model Hemi into a Volare or Aspen

I just want a slant six car, of course it would receive a fuel system update and then a large helping of boost, but it would still be a riot to drive, and still live forever.

I want to take a Scamp and then put a 360 in it from say a 94 ish 2500 series truck. You could always take a step back and put a 440 in it. Either would have stump pulling torque off the line that would make it a really fun street car.

jhaas wrote: Mothballed for now... I didn't even have time to drive my old $2007 '49 down this year. Life has been real busy. 3 kids, 3 dogs, and two new businesses has taken a E36 M3 on my challenge efforts lately. I PROMISE I will represent in $2010 I'll be bringin a well sorted out '49 with an LT1, and a basket case dart with a HEMI.

So, are you good with promises?

Bryce

If you are going to call it "Lawn Dart" The color has to be "Sassy Grass" !!!

So where did this project go?

this project is still sitting at my shop, not even started...I SUCK...i make promises i cant keep, (so my wife says)

we've lived in our house ten years and its still not 'done'

this 'life' thing is catching up with me...

In reply to jhaas:

no doubt. i saw a clip about the grocery store. looks like you haven't even had time to shave, LOL.

If you were closer I would be stopping by weekly bugging you to sell the project to me. I so want to do that build!!! The other obvious build is using a 360 or a 440 if you can find one. 360's my local P&P will practically give them away. One time when I asked about them they jokingly says if I purchase one they will give me two more no charge. Looking back on it I should have taken the deal.

mblommel wrote: < hillbilly > That thang got a Hemi in it? < /hillbilly >

NOT A THREAD HIJACK. Vital information.

Read a great interview with that actor a few years ago. He and another guy had a sort of bar band/comedian act when he was "discovered." He talked about how the commercials had changed his life, what a great opportunity it was and so on. "But I finally had to ask them: "What the hell's a Hemi?'"

Does BIGBLOCKDART.com have any good info?

OK, so i got the dart up and running. i've been driving it around town. it runs great for a 37 year old car.

anyway i still want to do the HEMI swap for the challenge this year. i got a 2004 5.7 HEMI w/ trans wiring, computer, etc...

i've been trying to figure out what kind of rear-end to use. i also need to think about the front suspension. it uses torsion bars, i could find some v-8 bars but anything bigger is atleast $200 for a set.

i was at the pull a part today getting some pieces for a mercedes. i noticed a VERY clean 190E, it has IRS that looked like it might be upto the task. it looks like a nice package that would mount with a little effort. i also liked the front suspension. it looks like i could cut the front clip off and have everything i would need to do the front swap.

i also thought about 5 series, jaguar XJ6, mark VIII, any other ideas for some good front/ rear donor suspension. it has to handle the HEMI with 345hp/ 377 ftlb torque.

any help/ideas would be great!

Simple, light and strong is the Ford 8.8, if you pick one up from V8 Exploder they come with either 3.73 or 4.10 LSD and disc brakes. I blew one up at the challenge last year but I had over 500hp and the cast flange shattered, the rest is all ok, with 375hp no problems

Just saying

Years ago (probably around 1980 or so) a friend of mine had a really nice '76 duster with the slant six. When he did a swap to a 440, all he did was get the correct motor mounts and a different K member. He cranked up the original torsion bars and used the stock six cylinder rear end. The car ran like a champ for a couple of years (both summer and winter driving) - until he rolled the car.

Here's a Dart with T-bird IRS

jhaas wrote: OK, so i got the dart up and running. i've been driving it around town. it runs great for a 37 year old car. anyway i still want to do the HEMI swap for the challenge this year. i got a 2004 5.7 HEMI w/ trans wiring, computer, etc... i've been trying to figure out what kind of rear-end to use. i also need to think about the front suspension. it uses torsion bars, i could find some v-8 bars but anything bigger is atleast $200 for a set. i was at the pull a part today getting some pieces for a mercedes. i noticed a VERY clean 190E, it has IRS that looked like it might be upto the task. it looks like a nice package that would mount with a little effort. i also liked the front suspension. it looks like i could cut the front clip off and have everything i would need to do the front swap. i also thought about 5 series, jaguar XJ6, mark VIII, any other ideas for some good front/ rear donor suspension. it has to handle the HEMI with 345hp/ 377 ftlb torque. any help/ideas would be great!

Yea the Ford 8.8 is probably the easiest of the late model axle swaps. Readily available, some with rear disks, some with good gears and limited slips.

Going old school Ford the 8" out of a Maverick/Mustang will bolt right in. I suspect the same is true for a 9" out of one of them, but I'm pretty sure the Mustang crowd is looking for them too.

Keeping it Mopar, they were available with an 8 1/4" rear '73-76. Usually in the V8 cars, but some of them even got the weak sister 7 1/4". Check yours. If it's got a cover with 9 bolts it's the 7 1/4". If it's 10 bolt it's an 8 1/4". The 8 1/4 was used in trucks as well. So gears and limited slips can be found in them up through '96. In '97 they changed the axle spline count.

The earlier cars had an 8 3/4 available. They will be pricey and have the 4" wheel bolt pattern. One from a '66-70 B-body would work. It's a little wider, and the Dart's wheel openings are small, but it can work.

As for the torsion bars, yea there are some aftermarket ones out there and they are nice. Not Challenge friendly, but nice. Way back in the day, when better T-bars weren't available a buddy ran some helper springs on the front shocks to stiffen it up a little. I think they were similar to the coil-over shocks you would bolt in the back as load-levelers. I think you could make the car work without grafting the suspension from a 190E to it.

The regular V8 bars might do well in the Dart with the 5.7 Hemi in there. I don't have the weight numbers handy, but I'm pretty sure that 5.7 is lighter than the cast iron 318 that would have been available in the Dart new.

you know the surface @ gainesville is smooth enough to not need IRS, so I'd concentrate on some teflon sheet between the leaves of the spring packs on the rear, and some slapper bars to keep the springs from winding up on launch. that's about all the rear should need. focus on the engine and trans swap, and maybe find a bolt-on solution for putting bigger front brakes on the car.

I am so excited to see this bubble to the top again!!!!

"Swinging-Hemi-Dart"

I am trying to get a reference to Jarts AKA lawn darts in there but it has not come to me yet.

HEMIJART ?

Both dangerous but fun as hell!!!

thank you angry, that makes good sense. i'm liking the ford 8.8 i still have my jig to cut/shorten one if i need to. so that brings us to the front suspension. i've heard that the steering box and company get in the way when swapping a new HEMI into an A body. id also have to find a v8 k member (no big deal) but i could nab an entire front clip from the pull a part for less than $100 id like to use something with the same bolt pattern. so that limits me to fords? maybe volvo?

i want to use the entire suspension off of something. that way i can use the rack/pinion steering, sway bar, struts, coils etc.

ideas...

jhaas wrote: thank you angry, that makes good sense. i'm liking the ford 8.8 i still have my jig to cut/shorten one if i need to. so that brings us to the front suspension. i've heard that the steering box and company get in the way when swapping a new HEMI into an A body. id also have to find a v8 k member (no big deal) but i could nab an entire front clip from the pull a part for less than $100 id like to use something with the same bolt pattern. so that limits me to fords? maybe volvo? i want to use the entire suspension off of something. that way i can use the rack/pinion steering, sway bar, struts, coils etc. ideas...

You don't need a V8 K if you aren't planning to bolt in a 318/360. If you are going to be fabricating motor mounts the slant 6 K will be fine. People were modifying them to bolt in 440's with the spool mounts all through the 70's & 80's.

The power steering box will get in the way. The manual box is fine. The manual box is smaller and lighter. Ratio is slower. I've pondered the idea of using a steering quickener on one. Haven't had that combination on a car that needed it (yet).

I'll admit now that the rustbelt Mopar guy in me cringes a little at the thought of cutting up a rust free front end to graft in something newer.

Not that I doubt your skills. I have a buddy needing that stock front subframe and firewall to fix his car. We have plenty of cars with rotted frame rails up here to play with...

If you want to graft the front from something, maybe a SN95 Mustang? Track should be close. Already 4.5" bolt pattern. Supply of used aftermarket parts too.

yeah thats a good idea.

i feel your pain. this dart is VERY rust free and only 60k. i dont want to muck it up for future purists. but i assure you i do good work.

im not opposed to using the stock front end. i already have the manual steering/brake setup on the car, so thats good.

at first i wanted to keep it all 70's mopar. i've been checking all the new cars/trucks at the pull a part for an 8 3/4 rear. (wow those are not cheap anywhere else!) i was told i could use some 70's vintage full size car as a donor for front disc brakes. 5th ave, cordoba maybe? Rob, what is your honest MOPAR advice?

Honestly, to make it a quicker and easier build keep it as Mopar (and simple) as possible.

It's a "crash bumper" Dart, not one of the '68-70's which are the highest demand ones, so a stock restoration isn't sane. They can have that tough muscle car look with steelies and dog dishes that not every car can pull off.

Best bang for the buck, don't do the Hemi for the Challenge. A 360 Maggie with a 4bbl intake (either redrill the heads for the LA bolt pattern or look around for deals on a Magnum bolt pattern) and you have a 300 horse motor bone stock. It's a roller cam setup stock. Not much used available in performance rollers, but they are out there.

360 LA ('72-92) motor would be cheaper, but have lower compression. One from a '90-ish truck would have better heads than the earlier ones, and lots of used speed parts available.

A 904 V8 trans can be had for cheap. 727's a little more but good deals are out there. Balance weights on the converter would need to match the style of 360 in front of it. Not a biggie.

Rears, the 8.8 Ford is a tough one to beat. They seem to be everywhere like 9" rears were 20 years ago. The 8" Ford rear is probably the cheapest route to go, and they do hold up. Mustang/Maverick ones are the right track width. Different centers are available used. Rears seem to be pretty cheap when guys are selling them off to put a 9" in there.

I love my 8 3/4, but getting one under the Dart at a good price with decent gears takes years of being a Mopar pack rat like me.

Yes, it can be made to handle with mostly stock parts. Moog offset upper control arm bushings are cheap and easy. Addco made sway bars for that car for decades so used ones are out there. The mounting hardware stinks, but fabbing up something better to mount it isn't hard at all.

The big disk brakes are off a late '70's Cordoba/Magnum. They were on the other late B-bodies (Fury/Monaco, but not the C-body Gran Fury/Royal Monaco the yard was telling you about), and R-body St. Regis/Newport. Think T.J. Hooker squad cars. You'll need the caliper adapters & rotors from the donor car. They could be found with either pin or slider calipers. The M-body Diplomat, '82-up Gran Fury & 5th Ave have the same rotors you have now. That is if it already has disks. If it doesn't, grab the spindles from the donor car too.

A similar Dart was built by a buddy and his step son. They stuffed a Comp hydraulic roller "truck" cam (biggest under .525" lift) in a stock Maggie 360, put on a Chinese knockoff of the Ed RPM manifold (dirt cheap), a used carb of some sort, stock Mopar electronic distributor, cheap used headers, and a 3.00 8" Ford rear. Car was turning 13's with traction problems. And I know they had less than Challenge money in it.

It may be too wide for a Valiant, but an interesting front suspension swap is a 2003 and newer Crown Vic police car...it unbolts from as a unit, has an aluminum crossmember, big brakes, decent geometry, etc. There's a million page discussion on the Ford-Trucks board about it. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/716058-buildup-06-crown-vic-front-suspension-into-67-f100.html