Holy E36 M3! Our hobby is doomed!

Sorry for the click-bait nature of the title, but that was my reaction today.

This September I started a DESS in transportation equipment design at a local University. It's a shortened 2nd cycle program (not full master's degree). I started it because I want to reorient my career in a more creative direction. I'm a 42 years old mechanical engineer who obviously loves cars and is tired of project management.

So I am the oldest student in this program. The other students are between 21 to 30 years old. We had a discussion today about our different interests and our lives.

I was absolutely shocked to learn that most of them didn't have their driver's license, none of them owned a car or really had any interest in them...in a program about transportation design. They want to design trains, buses, bicycles and electric scooters. No one had any interest in cars and most do not really know anything about them. One of the biggest local employer for this program is BRP (skidoo's and all). No one had any interest in working there. 

I mean that's a good thing from an environmental perspective, but I didn't think the shift was this intense in the younger generation.

Big changes are coming.

There are some kids out there.  This early 20's kid - relative to my brother-in-law took a 240SX, bought a firewall, dash and other parts from an importer, cut and welded it in to his car and made a drifter.  All on a Honda mechanics wage.  

I'm 60 years old and I see hope in (some) of these kids.

I don't think the hobby is inherently bad for the environment. We need to find better ways of moving people and things around the world, and it's great that young people see that need. 

Car enthusiasts were always a small percentage of car owners, in the same way that watch enthusiasts were a small percentage of mechanical watch owners in the 60's. 

The vast majority of mechanical watches have gone away, but the enthusiast group seems to be as healthy as ever.

Don't tell him I said this but 14 year old Lil Stampie identified Suprang's issue at the Challenge way faster than I did.

People still race horses. Few use them daily. Its fine. 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:

People still race horses. Few use them daily. Its fine. 

True, but horse racing as an industry has been waning for decades. Tracks and breeding farms are closing all over the country. 

*shrug* Most of the people who engineered the 240Z had never driven a car in their life.

This isn't new.  In my (2000) Graduating High school class out of 100 people there where maybe 5 heavily into cars.  Your experience is similar to what I had in College at a top 4 Engineering university in 2001-2005.  Even in the FSAE program actual interest in cars was low, and the team only gathered about 20 kids out of about 3500 graduating engineers.    

There is hope though, I took the challenge car (On the trailer because it was still hooked up to the car) to pick up my 10yo from his school and the kids freaked out about it.  

We need to mentor and share the hobby.  If all the "Youths" ever experience is the old timers telling them they are ruining the hobby and that they aren't interested in it it will be self fulfilling and none of them will feel welcome.    

In my experience people are interested in things that give them creativity and are accessible.  Help make automotive accessible to kids.  Show them how their interest in Computers, Gaming, Simulation, Hacking, 3D printing, Etc. can apply to the car hobby.   Even for the kids that are into environmental causes there is opportunity in the car hobby, things like Ecomodding, Hypermiling, and Recycling/repurposing.   I think this is a thing the $2000 Challenge does really well as it's at a fairly accessible price point and it encourages limitless creativity.   In fact I've described the challenge as a meeting of 100 recycling enthusiasts.  The costs of the hobby are for sure rising, but we are still holding strong at $2k cars that can do things and excite people.    You can't build things without learning how things work, and the car hobby with a mentor is EXCELLENT for that.

In reply to nocones :

Hear, hear.

In reply to nocones :

Preach on brother! 
 

Modern cars are more complex, more powerful, and more efficient. But the next generation of kids are smarter. They don't need to love the hobby as we do. They don't need to chase the same goals we do. But some will want to modify machines to be their definition of "better." That's hot rodding. Regardless of their goals they will need to lean on the veterans.

I have three kids ranging from 17 to 22. All great and smart kids. Two of them would not know where to find the door of my shop and the third is putting a diesel engine in a Honda Goldwing. There will always be a few out there to carry the torch.

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

the third is putting a diesel engine in a Honda Goldwing.

You can't just say something like that..   It's time for your Third to learn about the "Build thread"

It's not all bad. I have 4 kids who are interested in cars to a varying level. 2 of them are on here.

And we do this every few years with a local school. The kids love it. 

I think we have always been a smaller contingent of the general population. But there is hope.

Somehow I met 3 brothers from the next town over. The oldest is about to turn 17. He and his brothers go to all the cars and coffee events, supercar events, what ever else and post on instagram. Mostly into Hondas all three of them.

I got invited to one of their pop-up shows that they and their friends put on. I've been to two total. They started out a E36 M3 show with burnouts etc. First one I took my Cayman to, the second my Golf R.  Both cars were fire to them, they loved it. The second one I got them around the VW and told them to meet me at New England Dragway if they wanted to be legitimate in their shenanigans. They did and were hooked, though I bet they still berkeley around on the street.

Now I see the kids all over town at their jobs, Home Despot, the local grocery store, etc. and they always ask about the cars. One kid actually asked me if my Opel was for sale because it is the "coolest car I've ever seen". 

This is my 2 year old. Yes, he grabbed a lug nut. Yes, he figured out how to thread it on.

Let us not forget: there is hope.

We must be ambassadors of the hobby. Show how its fun, creative, and fulfilling. 

In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :

I agree. In some way, we are all ambassadors for this hobby. 

If you want to design Cars, there are only a few schools worth attending. Because the industry is relatively small with very few jobs compared to other design categories (like Product, or Architecture) the kids who want to work for auto manufacturers stick to those schools.

It's not that those kids don't exist, it's because those kids are at schools with specially focused programs, beause if you want a job, that's where you have to go.

Track walking! There is hope ;) She wants a kart, or a dirt bike. Hmm.

I can only speak to my region, but there is a younger wave and whereas racing was once a predominately white sport, the new bunch is very diverse - lots of Asians as well as Whites, Hispanics and black people. I think that this is a great thing. If you trace their roots back to their origin countries, many, such as the Philippines for example have a thriving motorhead culture with high levels of skill and ingenuity in their builds since they are less likely to be able to just go online and buy everything that they want. 

And some kids are late bloomers. My kid did some Karting as a youth, and recently at 23YO, to my surprise bought himself a very fast BMW and has been working on it, sometimes with my help, sometimes by himself or with his friends.

One thing that sucks is that the nearby autocross venues have closed, so you have to drive for hours to engage in that sport (I live in Oakland, CA).   

Although my own kids have no interest, I'm still hopeful that the hobby will thrive. I went to an open house at this place during the summer, which is doing great things for the hobby with youth:

https://www.younggunsgarage.ca/

Caffeine and Octane in Atlanta definitely shows how there are plenty of young people who think cars are cool; thousands will show up to a parking lot to look at a bunch of Hondas, Subarus, Mustangs, and Camaros with bitchin' wheels and fart cans.

On the education front, your experience with delusional classmates is definitely not new.  I did a Master's in English with a bunch of people who didn't voluntarily read or write on their own time.

I have two kids of my own.  Youngest has zero interest in cars whatsoever. Eldest likes cars like most people like hockey: he knows the teams and stats, but doesn't play the game.

In one sense I think I failed.  In another the kids need to find the interests that interest them.

Honestly, even in folks of our (your) generation, the real car fanatics like us are pretty few and far between. But they are still out there, keeping this hobby/sport/industry going.

nocones said:

This isn't new.  In my (2000) Graduating High school class out of 100 people there where maybe 5 heavily into cars.  Your experience is similar to what I had in College at a top 4 Engineering university in 2001-2005.  Even in the FSAE program actual interest in cars was low, and the team only gathered about 20 kids out of about 3500 graduating engineers.    

There is hope though, I took the challenge car (On the trailer because it was still hooked up to the car) to pick up my 10yo from his school and the kids freaked out about it.  

We need to mentor and share the hobby.  If all the "Youths" ever experience is the old timers telling them they are ruining the hobby and that they aren't interested in it it will be self fulfilling and none of them will feel welcome.    

In my experience people are interested in things that give them creativity and are accessible.  Help make automotive accessible to kids.  Show them how their interest in Computers, Gaming, Simulation, Hacking, 3D printing, Etc. can apply to the car hobby.   Even for the kids that are into environmental causes there is opportunity in the car hobby, things like Ecomodding, Hypermiling, and Recycling/repurposing.   I think this is a thing the $2000 Challenge does really well as it's at a fairly accessible price point and it encourages limitless creativity.   In fact I've described the challenge as a meeting of 100 recycling enthusiasts.  The costs of the hobby are for sure rising, but we are still holding strong at $2k cars that can do things and excite people.    You can't build things without learning how things work, and the car hobby with a mentor is EXCELLENT for that.

This. Other than my friends who I met through car activities, the great majority of my "other friends" my age are not particularly interested in cars in any way other than transportation. And I'm 47. So it's not like this lack of interest in the car hobby amongst the general population is a new thing at all. 

I wouldn't say it's doomed just yet. Yes, there are young people who aren't into cars. 20 years ago, when I was 20, there were also young people who weren't into cars. 

Speaking of those who are, one of my nephews is 20. He's very much into cars. He has a 2004 4Runner with some mods as well as his long-term project: a 1995 Mercedes E300 Diesel. He's had that thing for a couple years now, and he's done everything from general maintenance to replacing the notoriously biodegradable engine bay wiring harness by himself. He just picked up a turbo setup for it, as it's the non-turbo OM606 under the hood. 

And here's the kicker: he has a bunch of friends who are all into cars as well. They have all sorts of stuff, from 4x4's to diesel pickups to pony cars. It reminds me of my own group of friends back then. 

The biggest difference that I see between then and now is that the kids now aren't as concerned with going fast as we were. They appreciate cars, but having the fastest machine on the street is secondary to having something "cool". And "cool" is in the eye of the beholder, and can be anything from a ratty 60's sedan, a lifted 4x4 pickup truck, or something suitable for the Radwood crowd. And that's OK by me.