Honda S2000 - AP1 or AP2?

So, I continue car hunting. My short list remains the same three cars (E36 M3, M Coupe, S2000), but which one on top keeps shifting. The S2000 is on top now the more I've thought that what I really want is just a more comfortable with less wear-and-tear version of the Miata I am replacing. S2000 is the obvious answer.

So, do I want an AP1 or an AP2? I've heard that the AP1 has some weird rear-end dynamic toe issues at the limit. How extreme are these? A bit of low-end grunt vs. screaming red-line? I lean towards AP2 for this reason. I hear that the torque of the AP2 makes it better around town, but I currently live in a small town on HWY1 several hours north of SF. Most of my driving is curvy roads where I'm trying to maintain around 40-60mph while dipping down to about 30 for tight blind rights and up to 70 for the occasional open strait with good visibility. Is one or the other going to have a better powerband or gearing for maintaining those speeds without constantly lugging or running into the rev limiter through every corner?

Or is it ultimately a case of both are really excellent cars, just find the one that is the best value for good care and moderate mileage and I'll be happy? Only thing I draw a line on is that the roof must be fabric with a glass window. After the Miata, I am not dealing with vinyl and plastic on the top of my car.

Doesn't answer all of your questions, but a good start:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/common-s2000-problems/62330/page1/

-Rob

Neither one is lacking for low end power enough that it's going to be lugging or screaming at those speeds unless you want it to.

AP2, even best motoring thinks so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSpaWMFFpn0

I think the answer is "yes". Don't overthink it.

I've driven both back-to-back on track. Yes, the 2.2 makes more torque, but it's not like it's a small-block V8. On the other hand, the 2.0 has that amazing redline. To me, it's kinda like the 1.6 vs. 1.8 Miata thing--drive both and buy the best car for your budget.

The ap2 I drove a few weeks ago was a blast, but fit me like.. a wetsuit comes to mind. My shoulder and the top of the door were competing for space, and I had to physically shift to the right to get to the door release. Loved the car other than that.

Spinout007 wrote: The ap2 I drove a few weeks ago was a blast, but fit me like.. a wetsuit comes to mind. My shoulder and the top of the door were competing for space, and I had to physically shift to the right to get to the door release. Loved the car other than that.

Doubt that will be an issue. I am 6'9" and 160lbs and I drive a Miata now. "Best in budget" sounds like the correct answer. Rear geometry was my biggest worry.

Both are excellent cars really. I prefer the looks of the ap1 and I (in a weird way) enjoy razors edge handling while at the limit, but I certainly wouldn't turn down a good ap2. They kinda feels like a slightly calmer version of the ap1. Not as revving and not as twitchy, but still a very very good car.

Drive both and see what you think. Then see what fits your budget best.

Also go 2002 and above for the glass back window.

They make relatively cheap kits to fix the ap1 rear end issue.

Also 2005+ have drive by wire and a reflashable computer

In reply to Beer Baron:

Yes, rear bump steer kits are out there to fix that issue. Super easy install followed by an alignment and your twitchyness will be gone.

And it's 2006 and up that have the flashable ECU :)

Beer Baron wrote: Doubt that will be an issue. I am 6'9" and 160lbs and I drive a Miata now. "Best in budget" sounds like the correct answer. Rear geometry was my biggest worry.

Holy cow! 6'9"? ... do you even fit in an S2000? There is someone that makes a lowering kit for the factory seat in case you need more headroom ... or you can always put the top down

J

David S. Wallens wrote: I've driven both back-to-back on track. Yes, the 2.2 makes more torque, but it's not like it's a small-block V8. On the other hand, the 2.0 has that amazing redline. To me, it's kinda like the 1.6 vs. 1.8 Miata thing--drive both and buy the best car for your budget.

I would agree, but I think the difference in "balls" is considerably more 1.8 vs 1.6 than AP2 vs AP1.

Oddly, I prefer the looks of the AP1 as well. I'm still planning on selling my AP2 soon, but if I weren't, I'd probably snag an AP1 rear bumper. Possibly lights as well.

But, to echo what others said, the answer is "yes". Get one. You will like it.

Slippery wrote: Holy cow! 6'9"? ... do you even fit in an S2000? There is someone that makes a lowering kit for the factory seat in case you need more headroom ... or you can always put the top down

Oops. 5'9". Stupid phone keyboard.

Yeah, it's tough fitting my completely average sized frame in a mass market production car.

Not to confuse you any more but I happened to be sitting next to an M coupe last night at a light. It was beautiful, nice wheels, a little lowered...........just right. You just don't see many of them which always bumps them up a notch to me. Just a really nice ride. Anywho you can't go wrong with any of your choices as they are all winners.

Feedyurhed wrote: Not to confuse you any more but I happened to be sitting next to an M coupe last night at a light. It was beautiful, nice wheels, a little lowered...........just right. You just don't see many of them which always bumps them up a notch to me. Just a really nice ride. Anywho you can't go wrong with any of your choices as they are all winners.

No need to worry. I'm already confused enough. It's tough when there are so many good choices. The S2000 seems like I can get something in better condition for the same money.

Or... Do they really spank the NC MX-5 that hard? Does it really not keep pace with the S2000 if what I'm looking for is a fresher version of what I currently have?

Or if only the Z4 weren't so fugly.

Beer Baron wrote: Or... Do they really spank the NC MX-5 that hard? Does it really not keep pace with the S2000 if what I'm looking for is a fresher version of what I currently have?

What do you currently have? Will you be racing it?

ProDarwin wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: Or... Do they really spank the NC MX-5 that hard? Does it really not keep pace with the S2000 if what I'm looking for is a fresher version of what I currently have?

What do you currently have? Will you be racing it?

I currently DD a '94 Miata that is prepped to handle Auto-X, HPDE, and Drift. It's a great toy. I just want something with an interior that is not threadbare, doesn't scrape over speed bumps in parking lots, and has a stereo I can enjoy.

I have a Chevy Astro for a workhorse. I have a Porsche 944Spec race car that has taken over the duty the Miata used to fill as a track rat. Race car could also do Auto-X if I wanted, but I prefer to not futz with hauling a car when just doing auto-x. I can't currently drift it due to an open differential. I suspect if I want to get back into drifting, I'll probably just use it as an excuse to buy an LSD for the 944 that I'd like to have anyway. The fiancee has an RX-8 that I think I'll be allowed to share auto-x duty with her if I want.

So, goal of DD is something with the capacity to make me smile when zipping between towns on the coast to run errands or grab brunch. Then to have the capability to take me on the occasional road trip.

S2000. The simple fact is that the m-coupe looks like a peni5, and it comes with bMw costs. The s2000 is pretty hard to beat. The only issue is if you want moar power someday...

HiTempguy wrote: The only issue is if you want moar power someday...

What you say?

http://youtu.be/0MOleNVZjQA

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/957764-carey-bales-turns-heads-at-nhra-personal-best-813-et-and-prestigious-award/

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/950127-800hp-stock-block-s2000/

In reply to Josh:

This is Grm, first assumption is everyone is cheap, I apply it until the op posts otherwise. I am well aware that a stock s2000 takes boooooooost like a champ. A turbocharger system is about as involved as it gets though, so it is difficult anyway you slice it.

I think the point is that it has enough power to never really feel limited by that factor (unlike a Miata or something), but if you really think you need more than it has, you are probably at least a little crazy and, thus you should be pleased to learn that you can make really stupid power out of this motor if you so desire.

Coming from a Miata, either will be an improvement. Years back, I went for the AP2 because it overall felt more refined, more powerful and all around better than the AP1s I drove. Sort of a whole as more than the sum of its parts thing.

speedblind wrote: Coming from a Miata, either will be an improvement. Years back, I went for the AP2 because it overall felt more refined, more powerful and all around better than the AP1s I drove. Sort of a whole as more than the sum of its parts thing.

I think this question is kind of like NA vs. NB Miata, but subtler. I have driven both and think the rawness of the AP1 is a hair more appealing, but I'd sure as hell trade it for an AP2 CR if someone was dumb enough to offer me the chance .

Planning to check out an 04 with 135k miles this sunday. Top is weathered but otherwise everything looks solid. Think I can grab it for under $10k but will want a ppi first.