I've been intensifying my search for a WRX wagon and have stumbled on a number of highly modified ones for sale for very reasonable prices. Stuff like suspension and muont bushings, upgraded turbos, coilovers, up/downpipes, tunes, and more.
As this is supposed to be my DD, I was searching out a stock(ish) one, but since I'm sure I'll eventually modify it anyways, what's the harm?
Any advice?
I wouldn't, personally. If I do the mod, I know when it was done and what it affected. If it's done before you get it, who knows for sure that it was done right, used a quality part, etc etc. YMMW, as always.
I agree with my fellow MS3 driver.
It's why I didn't look for a used STi or EVO.
So long as it is done properly and with quality parts, I would go for it.
Suspension stuff doesn't worry me, as it's all pretty straightforward stuff. I get more concerned about turbo upgrades and "tunes" as they have more potential for future disaster. I guess if you did your homework on the parts/programs used it could mitigate it somewhat (what Maroon92 said). PPI (including compression tests) obviously go a long way to making sure you're not buying someone's hacked up mistake.
I wouldn't do it. If it was just bushings and shocks/springs, maybe. Engine stuff, run away. Regardless if you intend to upgrade at some point in the future, you state you need it for a DD. IMHO, I think you're just looking for trouble once you go beyond minor mods.
I'm always pretty nervous about engine mods, both from the quality of parts/labor standpoint, and from the "I've driven the E36 M3 out of this thing and its gotta be close to death, so I'll sell it now" idea. Suspension stuff is a lot easier to assess and inspect than crank bearings are.
I would consider it, especialy if the owner still has most or all of the stock parts and is willing to throw them in with the sale. That way you can decide what mods you want to return to stock. Power? Comfort? Reliability?
Nothing turns me away from a car faster than the list of "mods" or ludicrous statements about how much has been "invested" in the car. Now, if someone says... blah, blah, blah, C Street Prepared, blah, blah, blah... I might give them a change, as it seems there is a higher chance they know what they're doing.
It's the 18 year-olds with bug-eye WRXs and list of "upgrades" that makes me just say no.
My buddy bought a used modified EVO - it has been a money pit ever since and spends more time dead then alive...
i think its VERY vehicle and purpose specific. the GRM CRX? in a heartbeat.
i'd buy a heavily modded vehicle if i knew it was going to be a project and that might be the best way into a pile of parts/chassis, or a well documented deal like the CRX for use even as a DD. i think you can often get a feel for the seller even by just the exterior alterations and the specific mods chosen, and obviously talking to them.
Really depends on exactly what was done to the car, and what they mean by "Tune."
I wouldn't rule them out without more information, but i also wouldn't go out of my way to look FOR them.
I've only bought one "highly" modified car, and it was a basket case, but i knew that going into it. It's now serving as my DD just fine.
This guy is near me and has had this 2008 Mugen Civic Si on ebay a long time........enjoy the pics!
I like this car but it is waay more than I could swing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-Honda-Civic-MUGEN-Si-/280608874294?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4155979f36
I had a contour SVT that I had modified by the most reputable tuner I could find for that car. I had every mod known to man done to it and it never did run the way it should have in my opinion. So when I sold it I had to make everyone aware that it ran a little rough at certain, lower RPM's. It wasn't because the mods meant it had to be rough at those RPM's, its just that the fine tuning was never sorted out the way it should have been. I'm not sure others out there are as forthcoming so I am usually a little skeptical of too many mods.
No, unless you can prove otherwise by inspection or other evidence, you should assume anything that was touched since the car was made was done completly wrong. My car is much older, but it had had the engine replaced before I got it and even after almost 3 years im still finding stuff that is not put together right.
Well if you really can't look at all of the modifications, like in cases of internal engine work, then you should be skeptical. The majority of car modifications are springs/shocks, wheels, brakes, ecu software, and exhaust. It is not hard to screw these things up apparently, but you should be able to crawl around the car and see these things.
I'd buy a highly modified car, but not for a DD...but I wouldn't highly modify a car that was my DD...soooo I think it is a matter of the use of the car.
I don't think it is necessarily a case of the parts, but the intended use and abuse of the car once these parts are installed. Not many people modify a car but not drive hard.
Things like suspension and tires shouldn't affect a car for the most part (check forums for known weak points) but things like upgraded turbos can lead to vastly increased boost pressure, vastly different A/F rates, and increased torque that can put additional wear on clutches, u-joints, and transmissions.
Thanks for all the advice. Most of the "tunes" seem to be from COBB Accessports. A lot of the cars have suspension mods, which are OK unless it's the $200 eBay coilover "stance" crap. It's the engine stuff that bothers me, especially as the former owner of a few very highly modified turbo cars. There's at least 4 different modified ones I'm looking at.
02 Wagon ? Color - 138K, Turbo, intake, FMIC, tune, up/down/mid pipes, cat-back, CAI, Group N mounts, pulleys, Rallitek/Whiteline/STi suspension, Stop Tech big brake kit, sedan nose swap, carbon fiber stuff for $11,500.
03 Wagon WRB - 74K, CAI, cat-back, stance suspension, ricer lights for $13K (looks like it could be easily de-modded).
04 Wagon White - 127K, ricer cf hood, STi bits, Legacy wheels, stance suspension for $9K
03 Wagon Black - 130K, up/down pipes and cat back, CAI, tune, pulleys, mounts and bushings, KYB AGX's w/GC springs, and a lot of little stuff for $10.5K. Honestly this one looks really well done.
(the really intriguing one) 07 Wagon in Black - 43K! tune, cat-back, down pipe, TMIC, Prodrive springs, mounts/bushings, lots of small body mods and a cf hood for $14K.
Any specific feelings on those?
Don't buy a modded WRX!!!
They are quirky cars, and lots of people mod them incorrectly. Take a quick glance over at NASIOC and look at all the threads that pop up nearly every 5 minutes full of noobs that blew up their cars by applying tricks that worked on DSM's, VW's and turbo Hondas. Also, modding them shortens the life of the turbo, engine, rear diff, transmission, etc. When you buy a car that you don't know the history of because you didn't mod it yourself, you could blow it up on the way home. Someone I know had this actually happen to them with a modded WRX that they bought.
Suspension mods are one thing, as the stock stuff wears out quickly and the aftermarket has many reliable solutions for common issues (stay away from cheap coilover cars), but buying one with power mods is a VERY bad idea.
Also, beware that a lot of the "stock" WRX's out there may have been previously modded. Look for trimmed or missing turbo heat shields, aftermarket exhaust parts, hastily installed vacuum lines, etc.
Try to find the cleanest, closest to stock, and newest example you can afford. Remember, the 06+ cars have the 2.5L engine, which is a lot nicer with its low end torque. Also, aftermarket exhausts on a wagon are not always the best idea. I had one on my old 2002, and while it sounded cool on the outside, it droned and gave me headaches on long trips on the inside.
Javelin wrote: Thanks for all the advice. Most of the "tunes" seem to be from COBB Accessports. A lot of the cars have suspension mods, which are OK unless it's the $200 eBay coilover "stance" crap. It's the engine stuff that bothers me, especially as the former owner of a few *very* highly modified turbo cars. There's at least 4 different modified ones I'm looking at. 1. 02 Wagon ? Color - 138K, Turbo, intake, FMIC, tune, up/down/mid pipes, cat-back, CAI, Group N mounts, pulleys, Rallitek/Whiteline/STi suspension, Stop Tech big brake kit, sedan nose swap, carbon fiber stuff for $11,500. 2. 03 Wagon WRB - 74K, CAI, cat-back, stance suspension, ricer lights for $13K (looks like it could be easily de-modded). 3. 04 Wagon White - 127K, ricer cf hood, STi bits, Legacy wheels, stance suspension for $9K 4. 03 Wagon Black - 130K, up/down pipes and cat back, CAI, tune, pulleys, mounts and bushings, KYB AGX's w/GC springs, and a lot of little stuff for $10.5K. Honestly this one looks really well done. 5. (the really intriguing one) 07 Wagon in Black - 43K! tune, cat-back, down pipe, TMIC, Prodrive springs, mounts/bushings, lots of small body mods and a cf hood for $14K. Any specific feelings on those?
I personally wouldn't rule out any of those. A sometimes decent "barometer" to tell you how much of a E36 M3-storm you're in for is to see if quality parts were used or not. #2 is probably the one i'd be least interested in.
I'm not sure i would call them "highly-modded" either. They all seem to toe the line of "bolt ons."
Like marrying a prostitute....
I wouldn't call those lists anywhere near "complete" of the mods those cars have... I was just trying to hit all the biggies. For example, the 07 wagon's complete list:
You had mentioned that this would be a daily driver? If it is just suspension mods that can be easily put back to stock, go for it. However if there are engine and God forbid electrical modifications run!! do not walk to the nearest exit. Otherwise you will end up like the guy with the EVO a money pit and a nightmare.
After I bought my Legacy GT I took it to a tuner to get the maps straightened out. We found remnants of an old tune... Six weeks later the engine spun a bearing.
The car was stock when I bought it. It's apparent that it wasn't stock prior to that and I paid the price.
Javelin wrote: I wouldn't call those lists anywhere near "complete" of the mods those cars have... I was just trying to hit all the biggies. For example, the 07 wagon's complete list: * Aquamist HFS-5 * Cobb APv2 * Cobb catback * Cobb heat shield * Coolingmist 1.5G trunk tank * FPTD06-18G, ported * GM EBCS * Invidia V4 downpipe * K & N panel filter * Perrin Crank Pulley * Perrin recirc BOV * SSAC TMIC * Tim Bailey/Surgeline tuned, multiple maps. * 317whp/350wtq @ 3500 rpm 24psi. * Walbro 255lph fuel pump * Kartboy rear endlinks * Prodrive springs * Europa alignments * Whiteline 24mm adj rear sway bar * SPT short shifter * Apexi turbo timer * SPT volt and oil temp gauges * Prosport electric boost gauge * '05 tail lights * 18% tint * Aerocatch plus flush hoodpins * clear oval sidemarkers * cleared & painted headlights * debadged * front plate delete * roof rail delete * Seibon cf hood OEM * Dunlop Wintersport M3 * McGards spline drive lugs, black * Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S * Rota SDR 17x7.5 steel grey #1 and #4 have more mods than this one.
Still not that bad, in my opinion. The only thing that i'd run from would be the aquamist setup. It's there for a reason, and if the PO by chance forgot it was empty and did a pull anyways... well, you get the picture.
To me the question is akin to asking if I would buy a used race car. Certainly I would. But I'd have my eyes wide open.
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